AusVarmint

Howdy All,

Just a quick question as to whether anyone is profiling projectiles using a Whidden bullet die and whether they are gaining improved results?

Regards

Sean

On my 284 approximately 34" higher point of impact at 1000 yards as compared to the unpointed same load.
Accuracy hmmm, still comparing that.
Meplat trimming gives improved accuracy.
Trialling them and the pointed and meplat trimmed ones at the moment.
cheers

Hi Macca , If indications are correct at this early time with tests done by the guys in the states at the pointy end of the 1K field then it's MU then point then MU again after all the normal checks are done 1st .. I have had no luck with pointing and will take smaller groups every time over BC improvement ,but some guys have ..JR.. Jeff Rogers

macca wrote:On my 284 approximately 34" higher point of impact at 1000 yards as compared to the unpointed same load.
Accuracy hmmm, still comparing that.
Meplat trimming gives improved accuracy.
Trialling them and the pointed and meplat trimmed ones at the moment.
cheers

Macca thats impressive- almost 3 and a half minutes less elevation. Do you have an estimation on drift improvement?

G'day Fellas,

Thanks for the replies.

In regard to Meplat trimming (this is something else that I am in process of trialling, however how much should one trim from a projectile, I presume that it would only be 2-3 thou....?

Regards

Sean

Brad Y wrote:Macca thats impressive- almost 3 and a half minutes less elevation. Do you have an estimation on drift improvement?

Hi Brad,
Have not been able to get a constant wind to really put a good estimate on it but in a rough trial at 800yards i fired them alternatively at the x ring and saw about 0.25moa less drift. shot a 59.8.
I am testing berger vlds and MK's in the 284 and 6.5x284.
cheers

a.JR wrote:Hi Macca , If indications are correct at this early time with tests done by the guys in the states at the pointy end of the 1K field then it's MU then point then MU again after all the normal checks are done 1st .. I have had no luck with pointing and will take smaller groups every time over BC improvement ,but some guys have ..JR.. Jeff Rogers

Thanks for that Jeff. Was wondering about the sequence.
I'd agree that accuracy tops BC.
cheers

Sean Ambrose wrote:G'day Fellas,

Thanks for the replies.

In regard to Meplat trimming (this is something else that I am in process of trialling, however how much should one trim from a projectile, I presume that it would only be 2-3 thou....?

Regards

Sean

Hi Sean,
My take is sort you projectiles by length and remove as little as possible to get uniformity within each group of lengths. I have seen others remove 5thou and up and get good results.
cheers

G'day Macca,

Thanks for the reply. I have only just finished sorting by weight (to the grn) and by length (to the thou) 300 Lapua Scenars for Canberra.

What a tedious task.

Overall and from the weighted batch that I am in process of preparing (51) I found at least two dozen that are 4 thou shorter then the others that I had categorised.

I presume that if these were not removed the shorter ones would have resulted with higher velocities due to less bearing surface within the rifling...?

I'll have a tinker with the Meplat trimmer.

Thanks for the assistance.

Regards

Sean

Hey Sean, long time no hear.

It's pretty well split down the line either way as to the value of pointing bullets, but there is no doubt it has gained a fair amount of traction in the last couple of years.
The thing i find a little askew in some of this debate is that the biggest supporters of this practice are already at the top of their game, and in some instances are directly connected to some commercial venture involving these tools.
The very small amount of real empirical evidence out there that i have been fortunate enough to see, claims two things, that the BC is improved in most cases, but not all, and that BC ES is brought back to that of virgin bullets. The same data concluded that meplat cutting was the single best method of closing BC ES . Nothing new there.

Need to be careful here because those that are really setting very low numbers with point up methods are not using Whidden, or even Hoover dies. Some very specifically talk about hummer dies and are adamant that the only die worth using is the Pindell. Best of luck with that one. The point from my perspective is some have made these claims of real world anecdotal hearsay results as proof of value. One guy in particular uses Clinch River 103s, the single best bullet i have ever measured, has a 30 thou meplat already that i fail to see how it could be closed any further, and then claims pointing is what sets him apart. Not so sure about that but i would be a lot more convinced if he were using say a Berger 105 like Weber did recently or some batches of Sierra.

There is definitely a split on this and while all things are equal, the claim of hummer dies like a few make, could have more to do with hummer presses. The opinions are too black and white to not factor this in. One bloke shoots the lights out with Whidden dies, the other has his for sale. Seems odd as few sell meplat uniformers unless they are that Nylatron junk from that Highpower guy. But then there is always the ever present Alpha Romeo Syndrome. That exists worldwide.

The one thing i find extraordinary about this whole point up die saga is the actual patent and who owns what, but not surprising at all when one factors dollars and egos into the equation. Hardy/Pindell, verse Whidden and both verse Hoover. Well the reason this is funny to me is that a lot of years back i heard about point up dies someone had been using here in Australia. Couldn't quite remember a lot of detail, but then comes a gem in the form of an email. Corbin has been doing it for a little while now. Like since about 1975!! So there is prior art and a patent out there and some are not as smart as they think they are where one can only think something was maybe quietly borrowed somewhere. A lot of stones were cast Hoovers' way that told of due credit and dodging two existing patents. So what does this little document below say? You may have to control scroll to read it, but it is informative. Not surprisingly when this little gem was posted up back in 2010, suddenly a resolution was to be had and everyone was all mates again. Pays to do a full patent search don't ya think?

G'day Tony,

Yes long time no speak or hear (I've been busy with ongoing dramas at work-Channel 9 could make a mini series of what has been and what is to come).

I've just spent in excess of 9 hours the last 3 days weighing and measuring projectiles, the most painful was the Meplat trimming-my fingers are still sore.

Your intuition into the subject of long range shooting is always informative, honest and most appreciated. There's no esoteric regard for sharing knowledge or Masonic lodge bullshit and certainly no peddling Snake Oil.

I really appreciate and admire your input and that you take time to divulge with all of us plebs. Your like the shooting disciplines myth buster.

Although I'm really curious about the Whidden uniformer-to such extent I'm going to purchase one (including the sleeves for a few different calibers) and trial them over the chrony and then make comparison at POI with the non altered projectiles (I really don't expect to see any real difference until they're trialled beyond the 200 meter mound).

Thanks again for the input and taking time to respond.

Regards

Sean

Found it very tedious indeed meplating only to find they dropped 1 MOA. @900m. Too tight to buy a Whidden pointer I reground my centre punch and centre punched an indent into the back of Vice plate anvil. Using a quarter pound hammer I placed the meplated projectiles into the indent and a light tap produced a perfectly formed point. This lifted the projectile back up to it's original POA. without meplating. Conclusion is: Too much buggerising around and now shoot the projies straight out of the box!