Something I find a little odd.........

[220]

Because that was what was submitted and adopted as the as the standard.
You want variation look at the x57
8mm is 35k
7mm 51k
257 54k
257 +P 58k
6mm 65k

[Camel]

It is pretty simple, American manuals will list loads up to the maximum pressure set by saami. To do otherwise would leave them open to all sort of liability issues. As soon as you deviate from the specified saami data what you have is not technically any longer a 222 simply a wildcat using the 222 case. The pressure limit for 223 is higher so of course manual list loads to higher pressure than 222 loads.
You will find there are pressure limits set by saami for +P loads where they have been submitted and recognised. Obviously no one has seen the need to go to the bother of developing +P loads for the 222, makes perfect sense as most people wanting more velocity simply step up to a bigger case or go it alone with data.

Aww shit, I had hoped to be reloading a factory cartridge again, looks like I better order another set of dies, anyone know of a company that make 222+p dies for sale.

I know what you are getting at Hillbilly, I just don't want to accept that these limits are the be all and end all of reloading, funny that they will suggest the higher pressures in what is exactly the same case, except its a little longer.

Haven't got the info in front of me at the moment, what would be the max recommended pressure of the 221 Fireball case ??

[Camel]

Because that was what was submitted and adopted as the as the standard.
You want variation look at the x57
8mm is 35k
7mm 51k
257 54k
257 +P 58k
6mm 65k

Yeah, its pretty silly isnt it. Although with the 257 +P ammo/cases, didnt they make the case capacity a little larger. I seem to remember when it came out the plus p was for use in modern front locking actions and not the older ones ??

[MISSED]

Here is another anomaly the parent case for the 221 fireball is the 22 but the pressure limit is the same as the 223


I wonder how much fifference in fps when both the 222 and 223 are loaded to the same pressure

[220]

I know what you are getting at Hillbilly, I just don't want to accept that these limits are the be all and end all of reloading, funny that they will suggest the higher pressures in what is exactly the same case, except its a little longer.

You don't have to accept it you are free to put what ever you like in the case but have to accept that any reputable load manual wont list loads that might be perfectly safe in your rifle if they exceed the set maximum pressure for the cartridge.

I think it is one of the reasons improved cases were/are so popular. No reputable data for most and load development seems to be start at maximum for the standard round, keep increasing loads until the bolt needs hammering open, reduce by 1 or 2% and call it all good.
The next step is to advertise widely that the slight change in shoulder angle has made it much more efficient and increased velocity by 10%.

[DSD]

I find it a little odd that actions and front locking vs rear locking has been mentioned a few times but no mention of barrel fitment and screwed vs pressed and pinned.

Doesn’t matter much how strong the case is if you blow the barrel of the front!
Has this happened?
No idea but it was the reason given to me not to keep stoking one up a few years ago.
Anyway go back to giving Camel reasons and he can keep rejecting them


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[trevort]

I know what you are getting at Hillbilly, I just don't want to accept that these limits are the be all and end all of reloading, funny that they will suggest the higher pressures in what is exactly the same case, except its a little longer.

You don't have to accept it you are free to put what ever you like in the case but have to accept that any reputable load manual wont list loads that might be perfectly safe in your rifle if they exceed the set maximum pressure for the cartridge.

I think it is one of the reasons improved cases were/are so popular. No reputable data for most and load development seems to be start at maximum for the standard round, keep increasing loads until the bolt needs hammering open, reduce by 1 or 2% and call it all good.
The next step is to advertise widely that the slight change in shoulder angle has made it much more efficient and increased velocity by 10%.

Post of the month, nay, the year


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[Camel]

I find it a little odd that actions and front locking vs rear locking has been mentioned a few times but no mention of barrel fitment and screwed vs pressed and pinned.

Doesn’t matter much how strong the case is if you blow the barrel of the front!
Has this happened?
No idea but it was the reason given to me not to keep stoking one up a few years ago.
Anyway go back to giving Camel reasons and he can keep rejecting them


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Even screwed in barrels seem to come loose at odd times eh Dave

I highly doubt that barrel fitment had anything to do with setting the maximum pressure limits of the cartridge, all testing would have been done in house with the best equipment they had at the time, probably the exact same equipment they used to test the cartridge originally.

Trev, that reply just sounds to me like a "Me too" type answer. Very original. NOT

Here is another anomaly the parent case for the 221 fireball is the 22 but the pressure limit is the same as the 223


I wonder how much difference in fps when both the 222 and 223 are loaded to the same pressure

Weird shit eh ?

You don't mean that we should go against the seemingly entrenched ideas and actually use apples to compare to apples ? Again, weird shit.

I don't think that with all else being equal there wouldn't be much in it.

[Camel]

I know what you are getting at Hillbilly, I just don't want to accept that these limits are the be all and end all of reloading, funny that they will suggest the higher pressures in what is exactly the same case, except its a little longer.

You don't have to accept it you are free to put what ever you like in the case but have to accept that any reputable load manual wont list loads that might be perfectly safe in your rifle if they exceed the set maximum pressure for the cartridge.

I think it is one of the reasons improved cases were/are so popular. No reputable data for most and load development seems to be start at maximum for the standard round, keep increasing loads until the bolt needs hammering open, reduce by 1 or 2% and call it all good.
The next step is to advertise widely that the slight change in shoulder angle has made it much more efficient and increased velocity by 10%.

Sean, I am not advocating that everyone should go out and load to dangerous levels, just think outside the square occasionally and use some logic, rules, after all, were made to be broken.

[220]

I've got no problem with loading outside reputable published data, I do it all the time. In some case the pressures are probably double the saami maximums.
I just don't expect those publishing data to do all the development work or to take responsibility for what I'm doing. If I stuff up its my body parts in the firing line.

[mick_762]

If I stuff up its my body parts in the firing line.

Sean,
Stop copying Trevort - your errrm "bodyparts" will thank you

[MISSED]

Can just imagine she`ll be right then

Camels condolence card will read something like "serves ya right ya dickhead"

[Old Trev-39]

The .284W is a typical one to compare A.D.I. load manual loads to what is being used in B/A. actions in the field.
Book says 51.5C of 2209 behind 175 gr. pills as maximum. Myself and others 52.0 -52.4 and it is not compressed behind the 175 M/K's is safe but getting up there. 51.2 behind 180's is still good.
Cheers,
Trevor.