22 hornet

[mitchellchandler_au]

Hi all,
I just came into possesion of a brno fox in 22 hornet. I was wondering what projectiles and powder i should try.
Thaks,

[Camel]

Good pick up mate. Powders generally used are the faster type i.e. ar2205, win 296, imr 4227 (if you can get it) Hercules 2400 (not made any more. Plenty of blokes trying Lil Gun. Projectiles can be just about anything you want in 224, 40gners and 45 gners are the most common, Hornady 40gn Vmax/zmax the list goes on, I used lots of win 22 magnum 40gn projs when I had my hornet, not the most accurate but there were only something like 20 bucks a kilo in those days. Primers used were standard win small rifle, but lots of blokes use pistol primers.

[Con]

Powders (if you can find them): W296 and LilGun (both are brilliant), less good is AR2205 but its available.

Projectiles: You probably have a 1:16" barrel so the plastic tipped 40gr pills probably wont work (dumpy 35gr Hornady Vmax will), but I always start with a Sierra 45gr 'Hornet' projectile or any other 45gr designed for the Hornet, and then as I get a feel for the rifle, shift to a 40gr HP ... ideally I'll find a load with a 40gr HP and then never shift from it. But a few Hornets I had in the past often did best with a semi-dumpy 45gr 'Hornet' projectile and at 'traditional' speeds around 2600-2650fps.

Small pistol primer or small rifle primer depends on your rifle ... my current Browning tends to pierce small pistol primers so I use small rifle. Lee collet die is worth gold! Next hurdle is to find brass that gives you minimal headspace in your rifle, personally I'd buy x100 Highland factory loads to get a feel for the rifle, then use that brass as Euro brass tends to be thicker in the rims. Rechambering to K-Hornet is often an attempt to control headspace as case rims at minimum spec and chamber at maximum can give up to around 0.017" headspace in 22Hornets which is HUGE! The positive stop of the K Hornet shoulder is an advantage in that sense.
Cheers...
Con

[220]

Alliant now make 2400 and nioa bring it in so still available,
35gr hornady v-max might be worth a try as it was designed for the hornet, need to check but I think I have a few boxes on the shelf in the shop of your interested.

[Cammo]

mitchellchandler_au

I have a Browning LH ABolt 22Hornet and am using 35gr VMax, WSR primers and 12.5gr 'Lil Gun. I also have 30gr Varmint grenades but have not loaded any yet.

Regards

[mitchellchandler_au]

Thanks for the replys guys.
I was given 1kg of win 680 with the rifle along with a redding 3 die set and 100 RWS factory loads and 100 mixed case (win,rws,rem) reloads. just got to settle on a few projectiles to try, the reloads are sierra 45gn soft points. Even got a new spare magazine and a 8x leupold scope.

[Branxhunter]

Sounds like a nice buy!

Marcus

[Con]

680 was W296s predecessor, its not bad in the 22Hornet.

The RWS factory ammunition is GOLD! Makes Lapua brass (if they made Hornet) look ordinary. The brass is brilliant and strong.

You've got all you need to start playing!
Cheers...
Con

[Tony Z]

Given that the barrel and bedding in a rifle chambered for the hornet checks out OK, the issue of hornet accuracy has been staring smiths in the face for years yet few have worked the puzzle out.
Long story short, the 30 Aardvark, based off the 30/30 case is known in BR Hunterclass circles in the US as a real tackdriver in the 45 grain H2O capacity class. To get them to hum, the bolt face is modified to either have zero or just a little under a thou headspace between rim and barrel/bolt faces. There are many that argue that this is a far superior method of setting headspace over the conventional shoulder spacing like that mentioned by Con in regard to the K hornet. But not all K's shoot, so there must be other things wrong.
Most hornet rifles use rimfire actions that have a poor headspace setup and even poorer ignition. Both of which will kill the hornet no matter what rifle you have.

I did a VBZ for a guy some years ago that had 65 thou from the end of the bolt to the case head face. Most hornet brass rims measures less than that which means that with the bolt hard up against the barrel face, there was 3 to 4 thou slop.
So we were behind the eight ball straight up. The lack of a true recoil lug is another no no in this rifle but the flat behind the magazine well can be used for that or a sandwhiched lug like in a 700 put in. The bolt issue is an easy fix with the bolt end machined back so the rim is proud and then the barrel set back to a light crush or just loose lock up feel. A 3 to 4 inch rifle into a half minute rifle with the old give away ignition issue of a shifting POI gone. Further on the VBZ, the firing pin setup really sucks that benifits from setting back and joining the two halves that are too long for the bolt having only a 4 mm drop. Another no no for accuracy and a dead give away when pistol verse rifle primers keep getting mentioned with these rifles, and others where ignition is being searched for rather than a recipe for accuracy being found. There is a massive difference in that. Again rimfire actions adapted to a centerfire application. This is where the Sako hornets have made their reputation as the hornet action to have.

The point is, a hornet is a centerfire and should be treated as one where they need very minimal headspace on the rim, a true recoil lugging surface and a repeatable ignition with enough strike to always light any primer. How many hornets do you hear of unable to ignite Rem 7 1/2s? There is absolutely no reason that a hornet by design cannot attain benchrest accuracy. So when I hear of hornets shooting huge groups with massive POI shift, you have an issue that no true centerfire rifle has.

[Con]

Tony Z,
I would agree with you 110%, but didn't think it the right time to start a discussion on the fine detail of getting a Hornet to shoot.

Personally I salivate to think what a custom reamer with much less to no throat, a chamber diameter matched to the better brass out there (or just matched to one lot of brass) and run into a match-grade barrel with 1:12" twist could do. That's one of my 'much later on' projects ... to rebuild my Browning Hornet with a slightly heavier match-grade barrel and use a reamer that allows projectiles to reach the lands whilst feeding through the magazine. Brass that matches to give consistent headspace of 1/1000 (its a hunting rifle after all ) or less.

One of my next buys for my Hornet will be a Wilson inline seater. I feel there are gains to be made there as well.
Cheers...
Con

[aam]

Powders (if you can find them): W296 and LilGun (both are brilliant), less good is AR2205 but its available.

Projectiles: You probably have a 1:16" barrel so the plastic tipped 40gr pills probably wont work (dumpy 35gr Hornady Vmax will), but I always start with a Sierra 45gr 'Hornet' projectile or any other 45gr designed for the Hornet, and then as I get a feel for the rifle, shift to a 40gr HP ... ideally I'll find a load with a 40gr HP and then never shift from it. But a few Hornets I had in the past often did best with a semi-dumpy 45gr 'Hornet' projectile and at 'traditional' speeds around 2600-2650fps.

What Con said above,

I have a 1/16 on the Annie, and I'm using W296 @ 2700fps, with Sierra 40grn Hornet. One down side if you can call it that, is I found 296 powder to be dirty, always leaves residue in the barrel, but accuracy doesn't suffer because of it.

My next choice of powder is AR2205. Slightly less accurate in my rifle, but it burns cleanly.

[big G]

Have two Brno Hornets on ZKW 465 actions,one standard,the other is K version.Both have 1/14 twist barrels.Nosler 34grain HP shots work a treat in both.10.9 grains of Winchester 296 chrono's around 3000fps.groups better than 1/2 inch at a hundred in both.12.7 of Lil Gun fire forming in k-Hornet travels at 3100, after forming.Same powder load zips out at 3510 fps with 34grain shots.Serria hornets in 40 and 45 didn't group that well in my two rifles .35 Vmax shot well and hit hard out to 150 meters,then seem to hit an invisible wall and drop quickly.Noslers 34s hold up well for a dump podgy.My mate has a 527 CZ hornet,1/16 twist,34 Nosler shots and 12.5 grains Lil Gun works in his.Winchester small primers have worked best with both rifles,small pistol primers didn't decrease group size,crimping Didn't change the rifles accuracy either.2205 loads shot OK, volocity was around 2600 with 35 Nosler lit with 10.9 grains.All primer pockets still tight with over 10 loads.First cases I used were Winchester,now use Remington that hold 1 1/2 grains more of powder in K Hornet. Good luck with the Hornet .Cheers Big G

[stinkitup]

For projectiles just about anything up to 45 should shoot okay, even 50's if they are HP or SP. I have two 1:16 Barrels on a 222 and 5.7 MMJ. The nosler 40BT is the longest 40 going, if they shoot straight just about anything else will be okay in the 40s and below. THere are the hornady 35 vmax and also nosler 35 varmageddon pill as well. An old pill that you hear good reports on was the nosler 45 gr solid base. Always wanted to try them but have figured the 40 BT is slightly better anyway.

I can send you down some 40 BT's / 40 Varmageddons might have some 35 vmax only a few though.

I have often just shot single loads in a ladder test just to check that projectiles stabilise and to find a max.

Sounds like a nice hornet with a few extras, does it have double set triggers?

Ryan

[Branxhunter]

I think Andy Montgomery wrote an article in Guns & Game in the last 12 months about the hornet, including necking up to 6mm then down again to provide a slight crush fit to improve headspace and accuracy.

Marcus

[Tony Z]

I have looked at another two Hornets, both Ruger, since this post was put up. It appears that they all have an issue with barrel tightness. Removed both barrels, virtually with no effort at all, cut the back off by a thread then set the headspace and re-cut slots. Tightened both up as you would a centerfire rifle like a Rem, Win etc, and with no surprise both rifles shoot very well. A symptom in both rifles was that if the rifle chambered a tight round it left the group by a large margin. A new POI could be established by the amount of tightness on the bolt close. This is probably why some of these rifles respond to bolt shimming and why some shift their POI according to how hot or cool the rifle is. Once the barrels were set in tight they both shot way smaller and had no POI shift. I have since read a post on a US forum relating to how loose the 77/22 Hornet barrels are screwed in.