Thermion.

[Tony Z]

Has anyone had anything to do with or used the new line of Pulsar Thermion thermal scopes? Specifically the image difference between the XM and XP models. Looking to buy a XM38/50 shortly but was interested in the image quality of the XPs and whether the extra $2K was worth it. Not much on youtube about direct comparisons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHCgWN6QJso

[Sako 22-250]

Hi Tony
Whisky has just purchased a xp50 (after much mentoring by trevort and myself)
Hopefully will be able to try it out in the coming weeks
Unfortunatly very new to thermal so wont be able to give a comparison!!
Cheers Mark


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[Tony Z]

Thanks Mark. What i would really like to be able to understand is that the more expensive XPs have less detection range than the cheaper XMs. Having four thermals currently, the detection range between my XD 38 and 75 is as the numbers in the sales pitch suggest, markedly far apart when it comes to the view seen by the user. And then further apart on the ATN THOR.
Now generally when you pay more for thermal you get better. Generally. The XM38 states a detection range of 1700 meters, comparable to my XD75 which is just fucken awesome and will never be sold, but the XP38 has a claimed detection range of 1350 meters at considerably more cost???. Out of sync with cost versus performance going off what i have seen over the years. That is why i ask the question. I may have this completely fucked up. but looking at the magnification zoom at 8x, the WIFI, the pixel size and sensor i would say that the XP is targeted specifically for those that wish to video the 20 meter PCP head shot on the neighbours cat in HD and post it up on youtube. And no doubt if Trevort has anything to do with this purchase, i'm on the money
I will be keen to hear back once the XP has been used in the paddock.

[crackers17]

The big difference is between them all is the screen resolution..when i had a trail itnwas great with wifi for sighting it inn to much stuff around with the rest of it..it had problems tho so I got a apex 50..

[Tony Z]

I have spent a bit of time scouring the net on some UK and US forums and the tube looking for info and comparisons of the ATN Mars 4 and Thermion line.
The concensus with the Thermion seems to be the XM if you want to hit out further, and the XP on an M4 for up close if you want to smash hog families in Texas. The XP was tailored for that exact purpose it seems.
Two mates have the Thermion. One the XM50, the other the XP50. Another mate is getting the XM38 as well.
I went with the XM38, due here Tuesday, because i want to hit hogs and deer out further but i felt the 5.5x magnification on the low end of the XM50 was just a little too much grunt for up close running stuff. Also the field of view was a little narrow as well. The 4x on the low end i can live with for up close and the 16x for out further is more than enough. I couldn't see me using 22x when i barely use much more than that on my 1K and 600 rifles.
When i get it i will do a bit of a review from the sight in to killing bambi.

Just as a footnote, talking to and recieving emails from dealers has the same theme. Stock is due, when it gets there, because Pulsar is sending everything to the US market. Very little is getting here and of all the dealers i contacted, only one actually had stock.

[kickinback]

Red flag right there Tony


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[Tony Z]

Probably right kickin, poor choice of words. But definitely of concern of what is going on over there and how open the talk is. You would be jailed here.

[macca]

I have spent a bit of time scouring the net on some UK and US forums and the tube looking for info and comparisons of the ATN Mars 4 and Thermion line.
The concensus with the Thermion seems to be the XM if you want to hit out further, and the XP on an M4 for up close if you want to smash hog families in Texas. The XP was tailored for that exact purpose it seems.
Two mates have the Thermion. One the XM50, the other the XP50. Another mate is getting the XM38 as well.
I went with the XM38, due here Tuesday, because i want to hit hogs and deer out further but i felt the 5.5x magnification on the low end of the XM50 was just a little too much grunt for up close running stuff. Also the field of view was a little narrow as well. The 4x on the low end i can live with for up close and the 16x for out further is more than enough. I couldn't see me using 22x when i barely use much more than that on my 1K and 600 rifles.
When i get it i will do a bit of a review from the sight in to killing bambi.

Just as a footnote, talking to and recieving emails from dealers has the same theme. Stock is due, when it gets there, because Pulsar is sending everything to the US market. Very little is getting here and of all the dealers i contacted, only one actually had stock.

Hi Tony will follow with interest. Certainly an early Christmas present.
Thanks for all the info the other day.
cheers

[Tony Z]

Well i got out to use the XM38 over the last few days.

Pros. Compact and unobtrusive when using a bolt gun. Looks and feels like any conventional day scope. Fast start up time. Easy to zero and has finer zero adjustment over other models or brands i have tried. Lots of visual settings to get the best image view proving excellent for shots way out there even at 16x. Long battery life to the point i never once got to switch to the internal cell.

Cons. Expensive. The reticle choices are many but only a few are unobtrusive. Many are combat military tacticool wanker garbage far too busy for finding heat signature. There will no doubt be more reticles to choose from in future firmware downloads.
Field of view is narrow, usable, but not for running hogs at under 30 yards. The range finder, being of the two moving stadia line type, is like the WIFI, useless unless you know the exact size of the animal. By the time you ranged it, it would be in another postcode.


Overall. Has a better image capability than my XD38, but only just. It is not in the league of my XD 75 for detection/identification. Heat signatures were detected at 1500+ meters, but only the XD 75 gave the confidence to say it was definitely a roo, albeit it was a very large roo.
The real advantage of the XM or XP thermals is without doubt the overall package being like an everyday scope and the ease of powering with both internal or external batteries being rechargeable. I used the scope in the early morning period of darkness transitioning to sunrise in an area that is always bugged by glare. Always having to shoot to the east with the town and housing plus roads infringing for safety reasons. Thermals see no glare or mirage and this made life simple. Cold night, hot animals make for perfect thermal shots through undergrowth you could never see through. Even with a Z6. Vermin we ordinarily let pass were easily shot like on a kids video game. For this any thermal will excel, but the XM 38 was like just any other scope on a varmint rifle. Not half a house brick like other thermal scopes.
At some point i will get an XP just purely for shooting scattering hogs at 10 yards that you see at night in the black soil up here. The XM really is for as has been stated, smacking fur beyond 150 yards.
The best way i can explain it. Think of your patch where you sit or walk about in daylight and shoot rabbits from say a 100 to 300 yards with your favorite rifle scope combination. Then think about doing the exact same on a totally dark moonless night. Well you could with the XM line of thermals. Others can too, but the XM feels exactly the same.

[macca]

Very informative Tony.
Glad it does most of the job you need it too.
Cheers

[trevort]

thanks Tony

When I win powerball tonight I'll get one

[dashooter]

thanks Tony

When I win powerball tonight I'll get one

You can have second devision Trev. Iol


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[The Raven]

If either of you win I’ll go halves in the ticket.


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[trevort]

Forgot to buy a ticket


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[Tony Z]

Something i overlooked/forgot to mention. The eye relief on the Thermions is barely 50mm. Now that is for a full image and of course you can drag your head back 20mm or so once you've found and lined up the target. But this does limit cartridge choice or how heavy a rifle you use. Either way it's a bit of a pain and is certainly a consideration that sort of makes a joke out of the 375HH recoil rating.
A 22/250 or a 243 with the lighter pills is fine. Above that you will need awareness to avoid a smack in the eye. Other option is, heavens no, hack spit, a brake!!
All the brilliant work undone for the sake of one lens in the eyepiece.