Ogre6br
that is an interesting possibility- my main issue is keeping the noise away from my ears.... and now that you mention it I remeber seeing a .22lr at Springvale range that the barrel was drilled like that - though it was effectively like a sleeve. It reduced the percieved sound behind the gun significantly - obviously through directing it forward.
Wonder if you could put a short sleeve on a rifle barrel and achieve the same affect cheaply, legally and keep accuracy.
I would hope this can be done legally should be able to as they are only a minor variation on the perfectly legal muszzle brakes
Hearing Protection.
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Davyd
FYI
I have spoke to Victorian Police and followed with an email- on the general question and on the particular idea of redirecting gases forward through quiet crowning or equivalent. (I saw a variant of that a number of years ago on a .22 that seemed effective).
They were very helpful and are going to research it and come back to me
I'll post any updates
I have spoke to Victorian Police and followed with an email- on the general question and on the particular idea of redirecting gases forward through quiet crowning or equivalent. (I saw a variant of that a number of years ago on a .22 that seemed effective).
They were very helpful and are going to research it and come back to me
I'll post any updates
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Davyd
Ogre
It would be very practical and realistic to have supressors but we all know the political climate combined with hollywood's misrepresentations proabably prevent that.
I hope quiet crowning if allowed may help, if not maybe we could try for reduced volume devices - not silencing (which for centrefires is obviously a total myth anyway) but reducing the muzzleblast sound below damaging levels. I think it would be a hard road.
I posted about quiet crowning on rimfire central .com and the first few replies were not encouraging - questioning the effectiveness of the approach.
I was hoping it was a tried and true technique that we just had to find out the legal constraints of using over here.
It would be very practical and realistic to have supressors but we all know the political climate combined with hollywood's misrepresentations proabably prevent that.
I hope quiet crowning if allowed may help, if not maybe we could try for reduced volume devices - not silencing (which for centrefires is obviously a total myth anyway) but reducing the muzzleblast sound below damaging levels. I think it would be a hard road.
I posted about quiet crowning on rimfire central .com and the first few replies were not encouraging - questioning the effectiveness of the approach.
I was hoping it was a tried and true technique that we just had to find out the legal constraints of using over here.
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Crazyleff
Hearing protection is a real problem. I've been in the Army for 12 years and have lost about 50 percent of my hearing in my left ear mainly to do with shooting. I always wear hearing protection now when shooting at ranges or varminiting but it is difficult to walk around in the bush with ear muffs on. This has been a real problem on operations in the middle east/Afhganistan where you want to keep as much situational awareness as possible but when the shooting starts trying to keep you ears intact. We have taken to wearing low profile reactive ears from peltor which give fairly good awareness but will stop damage to the ears from gun fire/explosions.
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Davyd
CrazyJeff That is very interesting - which Peltors do the military use and how would you find them for hunting? - especially for 4 hours at a time in mid summer under a cap? There seems to be a large array of 6s/7s head band versus wire .... without any practical experince it is hared to figure out the real useability
The Victorian police got back to me today (they were quite helpful)
- silencers are definately a nono except in very unusual circumstances which very few of us are likely to qualify for. No surprises there
- they indicate you can put a tube over the end of the gun aka quiet crowning or more extreme but they are dubious about its effectiveness. I'll get somone to work one up for my heavy match barrel and see how it goes by the end of the year (seeing if another 6 inches does anything useful). I think the test for legality is that it must not have anything to deaden sound i.e. baffles
- they reccomended electonic ear muffs such as the peltors metioned
- they also indicated electronic ear plugs http://www.espamerica.com/ might be good if we can find ones more affordable than the ones indicated on that page
- They also indicated the ones a ENT specialist doctor can custome make out of silicone gell as very effective if not enabling situational awareness
Hope this helps others in the search for maintinging what hearing they have left!
The Victorian police got back to me today (they were quite helpful)
- silencers are definately a nono except in very unusual circumstances which very few of us are likely to qualify for. No surprises there
- they indicate you can put a tube over the end of the gun aka quiet crowning or more extreme but they are dubious about its effectiveness. I'll get somone to work one up for my heavy match barrel and see how it goes by the end of the year (seeing if another 6 inches does anything useful). I think the test for legality is that it must not have anything to deaden sound i.e. baffles
- they reccomended electonic ear muffs such as the peltors metioned
- they also indicated electronic ear plugs http://www.espamerica.com/ might be good if we can find ones more affordable than the ones indicated on that page
- They also indicated the ones a ENT specialist doctor can custome make out of silicone gell as very effective if not enabling situational awareness
Hope this helps others in the search for maintinging what hearing they have left!
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Crazyleff
Davyd , the peltors we are using are the Comtac II's , they are effective at reducing noise from rifle fire and have NRR of 25db. The two biggest problems with these earmuffs is cost and comfort when wearing them for long periods of time when it is hot. I use my work ones for hunting/varminiting all the time and if they are only being used for a few hours they are quite comfortable its only when you are wearing them for 12 or so hours a day that I find that they begin to shit me.
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Davyd
Jeff thanks
1. what is the sound like from the electonic ones - is it reasonable or do you feel cutoff from the environement - i.e are they a relaistic option for wandering around the fields varminting or shotgunning?
2. Would the peltor tac 6's be good enough at 19db reduction - while even 22's may peak at 140 and shotguns 170 (well over the 100 db damaging level) I suspect that is if you have your head at the muzzle - if pulling the trigger or being a reasonable safe distance from others doing so I hope the peak level is much less and 25 db or even 19db muffs may be good enough???? any opinions?? The tac 7's or the comtacs are more expsnive bulky and proabably a lot hotter
1. what is the sound like from the electonic ones - is it reasonable or do you feel cutoff from the environement - i.e are they a relaistic option for wandering around the fields varminting or shotgunning?
2. Would the peltor tac 6's be good enough at 19db reduction - while even 22's may peak at 140 and shotguns 170 (well over the 100 db damaging level) I suspect that is if you have your head at the muzzle - if pulling the trigger or being a reasonable safe distance from others doing so I hope the peak level is much less and 25 db or even 19db muffs may be good enough???? any opinions?? The tac 7's or the comtacs are more expsnive bulky and proabably a lot hotter
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Pigeon
Hi Fellas,
I'm new on this forum and although I visited the site regularly, I never registered before. This is an important subject so I wanted to share my ideas with you.
The issue of hearing protection whilst maintaining situational awareness during hunting has bugged me for years since I upgraded beyond the .22's. By accident I came accross some plugs that are marketed as "Sonic Ear valves". I use them at the range and for hunting and I'm on my third pair (don't get me wrong, they last for ever if you look after them and don't loose them..
)
Wearing the plugs, you still hear what's going on around you, even people whispering. Obviously you also hear the shots but the plugs really take the sting out of the blast and even after blasting away 20 rounds with a .308, there is no ringing or other discomfort. I also wear them for hours at the time without hassle (no more then any other plug anyway).
Best part is....they're only about $34 or so and you should be able to get them from any industrial safety shop.
I found this site where you can have a look at them (it's the orange ones on the side that I use, no experience with the other ones but they seem even better...and more expensive)
http://www.earinc.com/p1-filtered-sonicvalve.php
I hope it's helpfull to someone out there.
Cheers,
Pigeon.
I'm new on this forum and although I visited the site regularly, I never registered before. This is an important subject so I wanted to share my ideas with you.
The issue of hearing protection whilst maintaining situational awareness during hunting has bugged me for years since I upgraded beyond the .22's. By accident I came accross some plugs that are marketed as "Sonic Ear valves". I use them at the range and for hunting and I'm on my third pair (don't get me wrong, they last for ever if you look after them and don't loose them..
)Wearing the plugs, you still hear what's going on around you, even people whispering. Obviously you also hear the shots but the plugs really take the sting out of the blast and even after blasting away 20 rounds with a .308, there is no ringing or other discomfort. I also wear them for hours at the time without hassle (no more then any other plug anyway).
Best part is....they're only about $34 or so and you should be able to get them from any industrial safety shop.
I found this site where you can have a look at them (it's the orange ones on the side that I use, no experience with the other ones but they seem even better...and more expensive)
http://www.earinc.com/p1-filtered-sonicvalve.php
I hope it's helpfull to someone out there.
Cheers,
Pigeon.
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Crazyleff
I've used similar ear plugs 'Surefire Ep3 Sonic defenders '
http://www.sordaustralia.com/sfearpro.htm
and they retail for about $34 AUD but have found that they distort normal hearing a fair bit. They are defindently better then just plain earplugs though. The electonic versions that are availble are heaps better but at almost 600 dollars a pair for some of the ones I have tested not sure its worth it.
Cheers
Crazylef
http://www.sordaustralia.com/sfearpro.htm
and they retail for about $34 AUD but have found that they distort normal hearing a fair bit. They are defindently better then just plain earplugs though. The electonic versions that are availble are heaps better but at almost 600 dollars a pair for some of the ones I have tested not sure its worth it.
Cheers
Crazylef
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Davyd
Jeff Thanks
Interesting - they have a NRRof 9 even though the material talks of 39 - which is higher than ear muffs or maybe it is a measuerement thing on NRR testing at a set level.?????
Looks like they would also be good as additive to muffs for big range sessions
What other ones have you tried, for reference?
Interesting - they have a NRRof 9 even though the material talks of 39 - which is higher than ear muffs or maybe it is a measuerement thing on NRR testing at a set level.?????
Looks like they would also be good as additive to muffs for big range sessions
What other ones have you tried, for reference?
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bushchook
- .223 Remington
- Posts: 420
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:23 pm
- Favourite Cartridge: .220 Swift
- Location: Wheatbelt W.A.
I have been using a set of Peltor Soundtrap electronic muffs for about 18 months . Low profile so don't hit the stock which is different from most industrial designs . Comfortable and allow you to hear what is going on . Actually amplify the sounds you make whilst stalking so teach you to walk more quietly . Cost about $180 to $200 and are well worth it .
I'm no audiologist but have read that the skull transmits a lot of sound to the inner ear thus negating some of the benefit of earplugs but muffs to a lesser extent .
I am 45 , have tinnitus in my left ear and have always worn plugs for the 25 years up until the time I bought the Peltors .
Here is a link to info. on the Peltor Soundtrap .
http://www.aearo.com/pdf/comm/Soundtrap_GB.pdf
I'm no audiologist but have read that the skull transmits a lot of sound to the inner ear thus negating some of the benefit of earplugs but muffs to a lesser extent .
I am 45 , have tinnitus in my left ear and have always worn plugs for the 25 years up until the time I bought the Peltors .
Here is a link to info. on the Peltor Soundtrap .
http://www.aearo.com/pdf/comm/Soundtrap_GB.pdf
Last edited by bushchook on Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Davyd
Thanks bushchook
It is a bit hard to makeout but appears the soundtrap is the green version of the Tac6s - is that the case??
I am in th middle of hearing tests at the moment (audiogarm wednesday, ecg today and MRI in a week)- and it is clear that I have lost hearing through shooting. With more heaing loss in the left ear which is the typical pattern for a right handed shooter
This is a bit of a warning for others - as I am much lower volume shooter with centrefires than many others - so if I have noticable hearing damage many (most?) others hear would have a lot more!
It is a bit hard to makeout but appears the soundtrap is the green version of the Tac6s - is that the case??
I am in th middle of hearing tests at the moment (audiogarm wednesday, ecg today and MRI in a week)- and it is clear that I have lost hearing through shooting. With more heaing loss in the left ear which is the typical pattern for a right handed shooter
This is a bit of a warning for others - as I am much lower volume shooter with centrefires than many others - so if I have noticable hearing damage many (most?) others hear would have a lot more!
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Davyd
Update.
Well I am having an MRI on my head to check my hearing this afternoon - love those backless gowns you get to wear.
I have been looking at this hearing protection a bit to see what I can get that still gives some "situational awareness". The electronic ones are designed to protect and still give awareness and even enhance hearing (they appear to largely have been developed for US military). The base for the electronic ones are the passive Peltor Shotgunner 19NRR and the larger 24 NRR standard muffs, and they are just now moving from analog to digital technology
so FYI my understanding, with all care and no responsibility:
The latest Peltor models are Tactical Pro (supersedes Peltor Tac 7) 24NRR Grey, probably digital with better situational awareness selling online for US$164. These look like standard reasobnably large earmuffs and are designed for industrial and shooting. The tac 7's are the old analog versions so still good, and are now cheaper at around US129. The latter sound fine particularly for range work where quality of sound is probably less important; and hell most military guys are still using this analog technology. Has inputs for a radio, mike etc. Thye are meant to help you hear better than without by amplifying low volune sounds and cutting off high volume ones
SportTac
This supersedes the Tac 6s and Soundtrap again by introducing digital technology which extends battery life, sound quality and lightens the unit (less batteries). I just spoke to NIOA importers and have ordered through Mialls Gun shop for $260 (ouch) They are a NRR 19 unit though some claim more. They are a light cutaway unit (basically the peltor shotgunners with electronics) to get extra clearance on the rifle especially for hunting. They also have seperately adjustable ears so can adjust if you have differential hearing. So lighter, slimmer but less protection than the Tactical Pro. The older Tac 6S analog version seem a good deal at US$60 online
There are miltary/swat specific units with more built in communications electronics and are more helmet friendly - as far as I can see there is no protection or sound advantage- so can't see much use for civilians
I will use the NRR 19 Sport tac in the field and at the range. May supplement them at the range with earplugs (a practice becoming more common I note) particularly in the left ear - especially when using centrefires or shotguns
Well I am having an MRI on my head to check my hearing this afternoon - love those backless gowns you get to wear.
I have been looking at this hearing protection a bit to see what I can get that still gives some "situational awareness". The electronic ones are designed to protect and still give awareness and even enhance hearing (they appear to largely have been developed for US military). The base for the electronic ones are the passive Peltor Shotgunner 19NRR and the larger 24 NRR standard muffs, and they are just now moving from analog to digital technology
so FYI my understanding, with all care and no responsibility:
The latest Peltor models are Tactical Pro (supersedes Peltor Tac 7) 24NRR Grey, probably digital with better situational awareness selling online for US$164. These look like standard reasobnably large earmuffs and are designed for industrial and shooting. The tac 7's are the old analog versions so still good, and are now cheaper at around US129. The latter sound fine particularly for range work where quality of sound is probably less important; and hell most military guys are still using this analog technology. Has inputs for a radio, mike etc. Thye are meant to help you hear better than without by amplifying low volune sounds and cutting off high volume ones
SportTac
This supersedes the Tac 6s and Soundtrap again by introducing digital technology which extends battery life, sound quality and lightens the unit (less batteries). I just spoke to NIOA importers and have ordered through Mialls Gun shop for $260 (ouch) They are a NRR 19 unit though some claim more. They are a light cutaway unit (basically the peltor shotgunners with electronics) to get extra clearance on the rifle especially for hunting. They also have seperately adjustable ears so can adjust if you have differential hearing. So lighter, slimmer but less protection than the Tactical Pro. The older Tac 6S analog version seem a good deal at US$60 online
There are miltary/swat specific units with more built in communications electronics and are more helmet friendly - as far as I can see there is no protection or sound advantage- so can't see much use for civilians
I will use the NRR 19 Sport tac in the field and at the range. May supplement them at the range with earplugs (a practice becoming more common I note) particularly in the left ear - especially when using centrefires or shotguns
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Rule 303
Ogre I doubt that the quiet crown would work at all, especialy on center fires. The flash suppressor on the Mk5 303 Jungle Carbine is in effect one of these. It does nothing to reduce the noise. On a rim fire with a long barrel, and long and wide modified crown there might be a measurable difference.
As I understand it, the idea is to slow the gas so the sound is reduced. This does not work if the bullet is supersonic as it still gives off the sonic boom when it hits the air. Please burn me if I am wrong so I and others can learn.
As I understand it, the idea is to slow the gas so the sound is reduced. This does not work if the bullet is supersonic as it still gives off the sonic boom when it hits the air. Please burn me if I am wrong so I and others can learn.