Vortex viper- opinions

[The Raven]

..........(snip)...........I've got scopes from the US, Jap, Philippines and all have been fine and never an issue ever, I guess it comes down to what that particular brand requires as to whether they are put together well (what standard they are trying to achieve etc) that Nikon Prostaff 3-9x50 of mine is Philippines made and is a great little scope for the $$ personally I think the higher the mag range you are better off buying quality optics, the cheap stuff just doesn't come close (there are a few exceptions from what I'm hearing, I guess it comes down to what you want to use em for as to whether a High quality scope is needed. (if ya into fiddling with the dials I reckon the Higher quality stuff will be a better option in the long run, if ya into set and forget and only use em for hunting at the standard sort of ranges you can get a way with using the cheaper stuff no worries.

I have several Simmons Whitetails from the era that they had them made in the Philippines, and I still like them a lot. I have no doubt the quality went to hell in a hand basket when production was shifted to China. I think the fact that the Philippines was a former US colony, with English as one of the main languages spoken, would have had a lot to do with the effectiveness of quality control during manufacture.

Of course, coming from an era before the "greed is good" boys got too involved would have helped too. I'm still pissed with what Remington have done to Marlin's reputation..... don't start me!

I think you nailed it mate, quality was pushed to the side in favor of bigger profit margins.

Yep, even the best nations with the best materials, design etc can produce crap when profit becomes the sole goal.

[windknot]

I run a Viper HS 4-16 on my 22.250, optically it's the best scope I own, but I dont have any big dollar stuff to compare it with, VXii's are sort of my idea of a good scope for my budget. Mine has the BDC reticle which is very fine IMO, never had grief with it and would gladly own another one.

Cheers

[bigfellascott]

Never a drama mate - we are all here to learn and pass on our own experiences with diff things.

I've got scopes from the US, Jap, Philippines and all have been fine and never an issue ever, I guess it comes down to what that particular brand requires as to whether they are put together well (what standard they are trying to achieve etc) that Nikon Prostaff 3-9x50 of mine is Philippines made and is a great little scope for the $$ personally I think the higher the mag range you are better off buying quality optics, the cheap stuff just doesn't come close (there are a few exceptions from what I'm hearing, I guess it comes down to what you want to use em for as to whether a High quality scope is needed. (if ya into fiddling with the dials I reckon the Higher quality stuff will be a better option in the long run, if ya into set and forget and only use em for hunting at the standard sort of ranges you can get a way with using the cheaper stuff no worries.

My little Prostaff is a ripper but I doubt it'd compare to a big dollar Zeiss or equivalent. As you said horses for courses.

I think we sometimes get a little jaded and fall into the 'it's from country X so it's crap/excellent" (pick your choice). Sure some countries may be a little loose with materials and quality control but it's not a given.

Have you compared them side by side? I was of the same opinion until I started comparing the Nikon to the Swaro's and honestly there was SFA in it optically, even the owner of all the swaro's I compared them too said the same and actually reckons the Nikon was better than his Leica Scope optically!!!

As I said before if you want high mag scopes I reckon the higher end of the market is the go especially if you want to fiddle with dials often.

[The Raven]

Have you compared them side by side? I was of the same opinion until I started comparing the Nikon to the Swaro's and honestly there was SFA in it optically, even the owner of all the swaro's I compared them too said the same and actually reckons the Nikon was better than his Leica Scope optically!!!

As I said before if you want high mag scopes I reckon the higher end of the market is the go especially if you want to fiddle with dials often.

I did compare my Prostaff to a Zeiss, and it wasn't as chalk-n-cheese as I would have thought. Even my mate commented on how good the Prostaff was...

My Monarch should arrive today so I'll have to do a side by side comparison with my mates similar spec'd scopes soon.

Not much of a dial fiddler once I know what's required for each range/ammunition type.

[bigfellascott]

Have you compared them side by side? I was of the same opinion until I started comparing the Nikon to the Swaro's and honestly there was SFA in it optically, even the owner of all the swaro's I compared them too said the same and actually reckons the Nikon was better than his Leica Scope optically!!!

As I said before if you want high mag scopes I reckon the higher end of the market is the go especially if you want to fiddle with dials often.

I did compare my Prostaff to a Zeiss, and it wasn't as chalk-n-cheese as I would have thought. Even my mate commented on how good the Prostaff was...

My Monarch should arrive today so I'll have to do a side by side comparison with my mates similar spec'd scopes soon.

Not much of a dial fiddler once I know what's required for each range/ammunition type.

It definitely is an eye opener when you have this preconceived idea that because its XYZ scope that cost a heap more that it will have this huge diff in performance compared to the cheaper one, I've done a heap of comparisons with my scopes to some high end offerings and have been pleasantly surprised at just how well they compared optically to the expensive stuff (I wasn't expecting it to be the case) but there ya go.

For my eyes I reckon a scope with a 50mm objective or larger is the go, it just seems to work for me.

Yeah I don't fiddle with the dials much either mate so not much use spending the extra $$ to have the capacity to do it really, I'm pretty much set and forget type a fella other than adjusting if I've change loads or ammo brand.

[Brad Y]

Theres a couple of different scenarios here that you guys seem to be talking about. Nobody I know fiddles with knobs, elevation, parallax and magnification at night. Those who do get outshot by those that just point and shoot. Theres no time to worry about how much mag to run and what numbers of clicks etc you do. Just put the dot on the sucker and pull the trigger. During the day is obviously different.

[bigfellascott]

Theres a couple of different scenarios here that you guys seem to be talking about. Nobody I know fiddles with knobs, elevation, parallax and magnification at night. Those who do get outshot by those that just point and shoot. Theres no time to worry about how much mag to run and what numbers of clicks etc you do. Just put the dot on the sucker and pull the trigger. During the day is obviously different.

We're just talking in general terms mate, not specifically relating to spotlighting as such. I have a couple of scopes that have parallax adjustments on they pretty much stay on 100m unless target shooting for groups, as for mag well I don't fiddle much with the low mag scopes (3-9x50) etc as they pretty much stay on 9x all the time regardless of whether its night or day, the 6.5-20x50 well that gets adjusted depending on the heat haze or nighttime spotlighting etc (I don't fiddle with the turret much on that one either) but might start learning to use them a bit more if I swap it over to the 204 to really stretch my shooting out.

End of the day just do what works for you and don't worry about what others do or don't think (who gives a rats arse what they think really) it's what you find that works for you that is the most important part of any of this whether that be a high end scope or a cheap scope or rifle for that matter, all it's got to do is work for you and you only, anyone else's opinion is irrelevant really.

My LGS owner who has obviously got access to all the diff sorts of scopes tried one of the higher end scopes on his spotlighting rig and removed it and went back to the Leupold as he found it better under the light (the screams from the gallery were deafening) some scopes work for some and some scopes work better for others, who knows why, just the way it is I guess.

[Rinso]

Heres a few points for all and sundry

1. Everyone's eyes are different and as such how good or bad the lens is makes lots or little difference. Further add to this that in good light conditions all scopes look pretty good. Now factor in actual need ie what are we going to use the scope for primarily. Now if I was say setting up a Tikka M55 in 17 Rem for spotlighting foxes for skins I would use a Kahles 8x56 and it would be outstanding I know because I had that set up years ago for that purpose as did many others because it worked wonderfully well. For a pure spotlight rig I doubt you could do better than the old kahles 8x56 even today. Now if I setting up a Brno model 1 22lr for bunnies during the day any decent 4x32 scope would do if I wanted to shoot into dusk then a better quality of lens is required ie Leupold back then.
So you need to consider the use, your eyes and the magnification after that look through them before you buy them.
2. You generally find several price points with scopes ie cheap, average, getting pricey and OMG. What you need to know here is that a scope can be a lifetime purchase moving from rifle to rifle so its often best to buy a good one. You also need to remember that as price goes up so does quality but they don't necessarily go up incrementally ie a $1000 scope is not likely to be twice as good as a $500 and a $1500 scope is not 3 times as good. You often find that the most expensive scopes are only marginally better than the level below. People buy these scopes for particular reasons which may warrant the extra dollars but if you don't need that extra function or level of quality the you don't need to spend the dollars.
3. Very few scopes are made in house, as I recall Smidt and Bender make there scopes complete and have a lens factory. Most scopes are assembled from parts sourced from various locations even Leupold are not entirely American as I recall(although they once were) So what you are paying for is a standard set by the brand name which dictates the quality level of each component. remember as with all manufacturing this will equate to a range of acceptable tolerance so for example you can get two scopes same maker same factory but one has better lens's than the other because one got lens at the top of the tolerance range while the got a lens's from the bottom of the tolerance range, the difference may or may not be significant.
Simple fact is that most components for scopes are only made by a few suppliers who service all manufacturers needs. Were an item is assembled is of little worth these days its more about the standards set for manufacture and the level of quality control.

I will close with three things I think are very important ..
A good warranty is a must when putting money into scopes, lifetime transferable warranties are great.
You should always look through a scope before you purchase, doesn't have to be the one you actually get but at least the same make/model
Don't let other peoples opinion change what you want, if you have logically worked it out and you are happy then don't second guess because someone else has a different opinion

[big G]

There's a 3.5-10 x50 Viper at work that's crystal clear,sharp out to the edges .
Compares well,to the $1000 plus scopes for my eyes.
Bgi G

[bigfellascott]

I hear a lot of scopes even some German scopes get their lenses from a mob in Japan called Lighthouse Optics and a lot of these "Brand Name" Scopes get manufactured to the companies specs and are often farmed out to other companies when production runs are too high - from my understanding there are only a few companies that manufacture scope lenses in the world.

Can any of you fella's confirm if that's the case or not?

[trevort]

I have a diamond back variable, 10 top power 50 mm obj on the wife's t3 lite 22/250. It suits the rifle and is very clear. I had the next model up 6-20 x44 on the JAB 20 and maybe my eyes changed but during the day it was fine but the last half dozen or so (that's probably a 2 yr time span) spotlighting trips I was really struggling to pick things up. A few times I have the cross hairs in the middle of the beam and the mate with the light is getting frustrated as I can see nothing but tussock and shadow and he can't work out why I ain't pulling the trigger. Gave it to the son in law for his 21st last year

[bigfellascott]

I have a diamond back variable, 10 top power 50 mm obj on the wife's t3 lite 22/250. It suits the rifle and is very clear. I had the next model up 6-20 x44 on the JAB 20 and maybe my eyes changed but during the day it was fine but the last half dozen or so (that's probably a 2 yr time span) spotlighting trips I was really struggling to pick things up. A few times I have the cross hairs in the middle of the beam and the mate with the light is getting frustrated as I can see nothing but tussock and shadow and he can't work out why I ain't pulling the trigger. Gave it to the son in law for his 21st last year

What mag setting were you running the 20x on at night Trev?

[Rinso]

I hear a lot of scopes even some German scopes get their lenses from a mob in Japan called Lighthouse Optics and a lot of these "Brand Name" Scopes get manufactured to the companies specs and are often farmed out to other companies when production runs are too high - from my understanding there are only a few companies that manufacture scope lenses in the world.

Can any of you fella's confirm if that's the case or not?

It actually Light Optical Works and yes its in Japan and yes they make a lot of scopes for a lot of companies, the difference being the spec on components. As I said Smidt & Bender are all in house including lenses not sure about others anymore.

[bigfellascott]

I hear a lot of scopes even some German scopes get their lenses from a mob in Japan called Lighthouse Optics and a lot of these "Brand Name" Scopes get manufactured to the companies specs and are often farmed out to other companies when production runs are too high - from my understanding there are only a few companies that manufacture scope lenses in the world.

Can any of you fella's confirm if that's the case or not?

It actually Light Optical Works and yes its in Japan and yes they make a lot of scopes for a lot of companies, the difference being the spec on components. As I said Smidt & Bender are all in house including lenses not sure about others anymore.

Yeah lot of em seem to be doing a lot of outsourcing of their components these days (like everything else I guess) from what I hear there are only a few computer programmes that they use in the design of scope components too.

As you point out Rinso the only real diff between a lot of em is the Specs that get specified by the company they are being built for, ie lense polish level, coatings etc etc.

[trevort]

Scott I set all my scopes at 12 at night