AusVarmint

For the Sheridan mob ... if you are sentimental about the old Sheridan Bantam trash can pellets take a look at these two movie clips that compare flight characteristics of the JSB .20 Exact pellets to the late run of Bantams that came in yellow plastic boxes. Now they were about the worst of the 30 something year run that saw the old Bantam through many slight variations. ... The best of the lot ( I have had the opportunity to test at least half a dozen variations ) were the ones which came in red tins with white tops 60s into the 70s, at least in four Sheridans I have had extensive use of.
So as I say these yellow box variety of the old style were the worst and this rifle probably shoots them the worst of the four.

OK, first is 5 shots at 25 yards with JSB Exacts: Left click the bottom right corner of the video to get full screen. Use Esc key to get back.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v392/ ... SB25yd.mp4

Pretty much the sort of flight we want to see.
Now the Bantams, same, 5 shots at 25 yards:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v392/ ... ms25yd.mp4

In case you are wondering, the "group" measures 7.8 inches. The JSB group is 0.65 inches. Neither group is probably as precise as it could be as the sighting was done through the camera and my rest was a towel rack which was not so stable as a proper rest. The scope is a 4 x Jap scope without parallax correction. ... But I think you will get the "drift" to make a pun .... So if you had some sentimental attachment to those old pellets, don't feel badly at their passing. I did shoot a lot of bunnies in the 60s and early 70s with the red tin variety, even to 50 yards, but 2 or 3 good shots out of 5 was still the par for the course .............

Why do these shoot so badly? Well on inspection of shot pellets there is often only grooves on one side of the bearing surface. The pellets are too small, or the barrel's bore is too big, or a bit of both. ... Pellet heads' fit in the bore, and in this case the bore riding section, of what is in effect a bullet, is most important in getting the pellets out of the barrel with the least yaw. .................... Kind regards, Harry.

Yrrah wrote:For the Sheridan mob ... if you are sentimental about the old Sheridan Bantam trash can pellets take a look at these two movie clips that compare flight characteristics of the JSB .20 Exact pellets to the late run of Bantams that came in yellow plastic boxes. Now they were about the worst of the 30 something year run that saw the old Bantam through many slight variations. ... The best of the lot ( I have had the opportunity to test at least half a dozen variations ) were the ones which came in red tins with white tops 60s into the 70s, at least in four Sheridans I have had extensive use of.
So as I say these yellow box variety of the old style were the worst and this rifle probably shoots them the worst of the four.

OK, first is 5 shots at 25 yards with JSB Exacts: Left click the bottom right corner of the video to get full screen. Use Esc key to get back.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v392/ ... SB25yd.mp4

Pretty much the sort of flight we want to see.
Now the Bantams, same, 5 shots at 25 yards:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v392/ ... ms25yd.mp4

In case you are wondering, the "group" measures 7.8 inches. The JSB group is 0.65 inches. Neither group is probably as precise as it could be as the sighting was done through the camera and my rest was a towel rack which was not so stable as a proper rest. The scope is a 4 x Jap scope without parallax correction. ... But I think you will get the "drift" to make a pun .... So if you had some sentimental attachment to those old pellets, don't feel badly at there passing. I did shoot a lot of bunnies in the 60s and early 70s with the red tin variety, even to 50 yards, but 2 or 3 good shots out of 5 was still the par for the course .............

Why do these shoot so badly? Well on inspection of shot pellets there is often only grooves on one side of the bearing surface. The pellets are too small, or the barrel's bore is too big, or a bit of both. ... Pellet heads' fit in the bore, and in this case the bore riding section, of what is in effect a bullet, is most important in getting the pellets out of the barrel with the least yaw. .................... Kind regards, Harry.

That is interesting Harry.
My first new airgun was a Blue Streak in 1974.I was never happy with accuracy back then because all I could get was the Sheridans in the yellow pack.If I had access to today's wonderful .20 pellets,things would have been different I'm sure.

Very interesting. I got 5000 of the H+N made Spitzkugeln a while back - at $10 a tin delivered they were too cheap to pass up even just for plinkers.



These are around 16gr just like the old Bantam though they are a pretty tight fit. On five pumps they are good plinkers and the weight gets my little steel swingers moving smartly. From time to time, I do see one yaw a bit - though they seem to hit where I'm aiming most of the time and hit those little steel animals. Recovered ones of these show shallow engravings all the way along the body with them being deeper of course at the driving band on the skirt. No doubt there is a bit of oomph lost through friction - the tin I'm currently using has been lubed with a dry wax lube intended for mountain bike drivetrains. (no gumming + does not attract dirt) This has made them easier to seat so I assume there is also less friction in the bore.

No doubt that the excellent Kodiaks I got from Lewis as well as the Exacts he sent me, would outshoot these old style slugs, but for plinkers they are OK. Oh, on four or five pumps the H+N's will go right through Indian Mynahs too...

fenring wrote:Very interesting. I got 5000 of the H+N made Spitzkugeln a while back - at $10 a tin delivered they were too cheap to pass up even just for plinkers.



These are around 16gr just like the old Bantam though they are a pretty tight fit. On five pumps they are good plinkers and the weight gets my little steel swingers moving smartly. From time to time, I do see one yaw a bit - though they seem to hit where I'm aiming most of the time and hit those little steel animals. Recovered ones of these show shallow engravings all the way along the body with them being deeper of course at the driving band on the skirt. No doubt there is a bit of oomph lost through friction - the tin I'm currently using has been lubed with a dry wax lube intended for mountain bike drivetrains. (no gumming + does not attract dirt) This has made them easier to seat so I assume there is also less friction in the bore.

No doubt that the excellent Kodiaks I got from Lewis as well as the Exacts he sent me, would outshoot these old style slugs, but for plinkers they are OK. Oh, on four or five pumps the H+N's will go right through Indian Mynahs too...

Your H @ N slugs are obviously a good fit to the barrel of your rifle. The faster you shoot them the better they MAY go too. When I was shooting rabbits with the red tin Bantams in the 60s, I was using 8 pumps and at 30 yards chest shot rabbits found the slugs caught in the skin on the far side of old bucks in winter skins.

Back about eight years ago I did a project for Ted Osborne in USA who was intending to write a book on Sheridans. He sent me samples of each of a number of the various Bantam iterations. I wrote a full report which I have on file with pics. Ted recently oassed away, the book was not finished unfortunately. ... I have just copied part of the summary for you. You may find it of some interest. The range for all shooting was 25 yards with 6 pumps.

Quote from my research report:

RESULTS : TABLE 1: Muzzle Pellet Energy :

The following energy values ( at the specified number of 6 pumps ) were derived from figures obtained by shooting through a Chrony chronograph at a measured six feet from the muzzle to the mid-point of the chronograph. The mean velocity for five shots from random samples of each pellet type was used, together with the mean weight of ten of each pellet type. Mean energy of the seven pellet types was 11.21 ft. lbs with a standard deviation ( SD ) of 0.3394 ft. lbs.

Crosman Premiers (CP) die # 2 , May 2000 14.30 gr 613.9 ft.s 11.97 ft lbs.
Latest Sheridan cylindrical pellets (SCP), purchased 2001 14.30 gr 584.6 ft.s 10.85 ft lbs.
Red tin with white lid Bantams (RTB), sample about 1969 15.72 gr 563.3 ft.s 11.08 ft lbs.
Yellow plastic box Bantams (YBB), sample late 1970s 15.73 gr 562.2 ft.s 11.04 ft lbs.
Old brown tin lid Bantams (OBLB), sample about 1953 15.90 gr 559.8 ft.s 11.07 ft lbs.
Newer brown tin lid Bantams (NBLB), sample about 1957 16.30 gr 553.5 ft.s 11.09 ft lbs.
Green tin Bantams (GTB), very early but of unknown date 15.70 gr 570.5 ft.s 11.35 ft lbs.

RESULTS: TABLE 2: Mean Group Sizes:
The means of the five groups for each pellet type are listed in rank order from best
( CP ) to worst ( GTB ). Units are in inches ( in ) and minutes of angle ( moa ); SD in inches :

CP – 0.59 in. 2.06 moa SD 0.2588 in.
SCP – 1.41 in. 4.92 moa SD 0.6773 in.
RTB – 2.22 in. 7.75 moa SD 0.5326 in.
YBB – 4.10 in. 14.32 moa SD 0.8972 in.
OBLB – 4.36 in. 15.22 moa SD 1.1896 in.
NBLB – 4.47 in. 15.61 moa SD 1.3858 in.
GTB – 4.75 in. 16.59 moa SD 2.1984 in.

End quote.

There are a number of diabolos which shoot very nearly or as good as those Crosman Premiers. You have the JSB and the Kodiaks. Another that does very well, lighter and faster but less energy from a given charge is the H @ N Field and Target Trophy ( I forget what the Beeman badged tin's name was. The Beeman Silver Bear hollow point is very light but it too shoots very well and would be a good Myna medicine .......... Hope you get something from this. I could copy that whole article but would have to re-match the pics which would be quite a job as they were cobbled up with some graphics programme on an old Mac computer. .... Kind regards, Harry.

Thanks Harry.

I have a tine or two of the FTT's here, a tin of Silver Bears that Lewis threw in with an order for the Kodiaks and also a tin of Crow Magnums from Lewis. I will say that I prefer the heavier (14gr or more) pellets in the Sheridan. Those Kodiaks just look like they mean business - long and streamlined.

Cool. There is what appears to be a good example of a Blue Streak .20 cal on used guns at the moment. Thought it would have been snapped up, maybe it has. People have an annoying habit of not removing their adds when sold. Im looking for a HW97k in .177 if anyone has one they don't want any longer.

Harry the more you post the better it gets Fantastic stuff again, interesting to see just how consistent the jsb's are compared to the others all over the shot. No wonder my r9 drills them and the H&N lighter target pills.

They are top video's mate.

Ryan

Yeah, I saw that old Streak on there. Would be good value if the condition is as advertised. But it probably doesn't shoot at "1000fps" so folks are not interested...

fenring wrote:Yeah, I saw that old Streak on there. Would be good value if the condition is as advertised. But it probably doesn't shoot at "1000fps" so folks are not interested...

Hey Fenring is that the same as yours?

Ryan

Yep, looks pretty much identical.

Hmm wonder if its still for sale a cheeky offer you never the answer might just have to message them

OK Harry, I shot three types of pellets into a wadded up blanket today - four pumps just to drive them through the pipe and into the material, so we could see the rifling marks. You were of course 100% correct about the Bantams. No engraving to speak of on the front end of the pellet, so they are free to skew coming out the muzzle.



The H+N Sheridan pellet has engravings right the way along, and the Kodiak is engraved on the head and skirt as it should be. That Ding in the H+N's skirt is post-firing.

You can see in this pic, with the pellets rotated around that the Bantam has been partly engraved by one land only, on one side. Note also the odd circular mark on the top of the Bantam's body - it seems to have grown an eye like R2D2.

fenring wrote:OK Harry, I shot three types of pellets into a wadded up blanket today - four pumps just to drive them through the pipe and into the material, so we could see the rifling marks. You were of course 100% correct about the Bantams. No engraving to speak of on the front end of the pellet, so they are free to skew coming out the muzzle.



The H+N Sheridan pellet has engravings right the way along, and the Kodiak is engraved on the head and skirt as it should be. That Ding in the H+N's skirt is post-firing.

You can see in this pic, with the pellets rotated around that the Bantam has been partly engraved by one land only, on one side. Note also the odd circular mark on the top of the Bantam's body - it seems to have grown an eye like R2D2.

Yep, that's how the yellow box Bantams came out. All the Bantams had the die mark, that little circle. The red tin Bantams from the 60s shot the best and did engrave pretty well. I could shrink the group size at 25 yards by indexing that die mark to the same place for each when loading. ... Just like the filed skirts and heads in that last post of mine. ... I've written about indexing over the years but shooters in USA and elsewhere generally are not interested in the tiny little things that make a difference but involve a little effort. ... Some of my best 100 yards groups with 15.9 gr JSB Exacts were shot indexed according to how they came out of the die ........... Your H @ N seem to be OK. Will they consistently do under an inch at 30 yards? .....

Thanks for the pics ... Best regards, Harry. Edit: Get some sheep's wool, tease it out well and stick it into a bit of 6'' pipe or a plastic shopping bag to catch pellets. Pillow stuffing is fine too ... H.

Harry, I really have not done any serious paper punching with the Sheridan - it's all steel swingers so far. So can't comment on groups etc. One day I might do some pellet comparo's on the paper.