shotguns explained?

[17hmr]

could someone please explain to me about chokes on a shotgun? looking at one for my birthday to be used on rabbits, 12g, OU. any info would be great.

[Knackers]

G'day 17hmr, I've been using a shottie for over tweny years and only brought a U/O with chokes about three years ago.
Chokes can be changed to alter the spread pattern of the shot, eg; ihave a wide choke on the bottom barrel (it fires first) and a tighter choke on the top barrel. The wide choke is if I see something close up, then the pattern has a bit of a spread and the tighter choke for if I miss, the game will be departing so the tighter choke keeps the pattern a bit tighter for a bit longer. Hope that makes some sence.

[HAIR BEAR]

G'day
Well Knackers is right
or there are usaully 4-5 chokes
full =tight pattern
3/4= little more open pattern the full
1/2 = little more open then 3/4
1/4= little more open pattern then 1/2
Skeet/open is the widest pattern
I used to hunt alot with o/u and i usually used to
Ducks full top barrel 3/4 bottom barrel
rabbits and hares 3/4 top barrel 1/2 bottom
quail 1/4 top barrel skeet bottom barrel
i always fired bottom barrel first ,then top barrel

Hope this helps
Andree

[17hmr]

thanks for that, kinda makes sense now. for ur 'long shots' wat kind of distance are we talking about?

[zzsstt]

thanks for that, kinda makes sense now. for ur 'long shots' wat kind of distance are we talking about?

Depends on the size and weight of the shot (lead pellets), how much powder is pushing them and what choke you are using.

The shotshell has a fixed volume available, some of which contains powder and some for shot, so you can fit more small shot than big ones. Each pellet will slow quite quickly, heavier pellets keep their velocity a bit better, but there are fewer of them. So, what you have is a trade off. Fewer heavier pellets or more lighter ones. Then you pick a choke size. A tighter choke keeps the pellets together (tighter "pattern") where a more open choke allows them to disperse. Almost all shotguns are choked. Some have interchangeable choke tubes, whilst older and/or cheaper guns, and most side-by-sides, have "fixed" chokes, meaning the barrel itself narrows at the muzzle. Double barreled guns with fixed chokes usually have different chokes on each barrel.

You can also change the size of the shotshell to allow more powder and/or shot. "Magnum" cartridges are physically longer and the gun must be designed to take them.

At the end of the day, at any given distance you therefore have a certain number of pellets per square inch, with each pellet having a particular weight and speed and therefore energy. To "kill" your target, you have to have enough pellets per square foot to make sure you hit it, and each pellet (or the number that hit the target) must have enough energy to kill it....

So (still with me?), to kill a quail, which is very small, you need a lot of pellets (to be sure you hit it!), but each pellet does not need a huge amount of energy. But to kill a goose, which is very large, you need pellets with much more energy but because it is a bigger target you don't need so many to make sure you hit it.

So, having worked through all of the above, you have picked your target and decided on pellet size and weight, magnum cartridge or normal, and choke size. You can now test the spread of pellets (called "patterning" you shotgun) by shooting at a large sheet of paper and seeing the spread of pellets.

Overall, for most combinations, to have enough pellets hit with enough energy to kill, the maximum effective range of a shotgun would probably be less than 50m.

Note we have other possibilities, like "slugs" which are basically one big pellet, and I'm not sure they are available in Australia. Also steel shot which are required for shooting waterfowl in many places (to avoid lead poisoning) but which are less dense than lead, so each pellet slows down more quickly.

[Knackers]

Wonderfully discribed there Zzsstt do you do a bit of shot gunning yourself, or are you mainly a rifle man? My shottie would see about 5-10% of the use that my rifles do.

[Nick S]

thanks for that, kinda makes sense now. for ur 'long shots' wat kind of distance are we talking about?

zzsstt gave an excellent answer, but in case you got lost there;

I reckon 60m is a real long shot. You might take a fox with BB's at that range. Smaller shot will not make it that far though.

Slugs are available and will work to 150m, but accuracy is a problem and you may as well use a rifle.

I generally don't shoot rabbits over 40m with 4's and a tight choke.

AAA's extend the range a bit over BB's, but small game could easily pass through a hole in the pattern with so few pellets (42 i think, 86 in a BB load).

[zzsstt]

Wonderfully discribed there Zzsstt do you do a bit of shot gunning yourself, or are you mainly a rifle man? My shottie would see about 5-10% of the use that my rifles do.

I used to shoot clays and sometimes pheasant, but since I moved to Australia I have repeatedly failed to buy a 12 gauge. I have promised myself one of those lovely Beretta's, and one day I'll get one!

I do have an oh-so-cute Mossberg .410 "Silver Reserve" over and under. It makes short work of nasties around the house or sheds, but I have not tried it on anything larger. I really should, or maybe just buy that Beretta, because I'm finding the rabbits at the moment are camping in the long grass and bolting at the last minute, right from under my feet........ a shottie would be more useful than a .223 under those conditions!

[RayG]

Hi zzsstt! If you want a good Beretta do what I did, took the advise of the gunsmith members of my club and bought a 15 year old Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon "Sporting" it came with a pair of Skeet and 3 other chokes cased in ex condition with not a lot of club shooting in its history. I,m told the later versions of the same model are not what they were in quality,sign of the times I guess. Good hunting,Ray.

[17hmr]

thanks for that Zzsstt, was very well explained. will have to go into the shop at the end of the week and see what they have!

[17hmr]

another question, barrel lenght, does it make alot of difference? ive notice 20inch, 28 inch, and 30 inch, what if perfered? this will just be a cheap, knock about shotgun for bunnys in open paddocks and berries.

[Knackers]

G'day 17HMR I had the choice of 28" or 30" barrel on my Miroku, but being the short bugger that I am I chose the 28" so that I could swing a bit better.
You'll have to ask Zzsstt or Hair bear about performance difference's between the two lengths.

[zzsstt]

another question, barrel lenght, does it make alot of difference? ive notice 20inch, 28 inch, and 30 inch, what if perfered? this will just be a cheap, knock about shotgun for bunnys in open paddocks and berries.

The biggest difference, as far as I'm concerned, with barrel length is "swing". When shooting clays, the longer barrel gives the ability to make a very smooth swing to follow (or lead) the bird. However it is not so quick to change direction, as there is much more momentum. This is why really short barrels ("coach guns") are used for pigs in dense undergrowth, they are quicker to point and they don't get caught in the bushes. Barrel length makes no significant difference to pattern or velocity. Longer barrels also give you more length to sight along (no real sights on shotties, just a front bead), which also reminds me to tell you to check the top rib, as this is what you sight along, and wider or narrower ribs with different finishes are a personal choice!

To choose the length, I'd suggest you get hold of a couple and swing'em about - like you were trying to shoot a moving rabbit or bird. Then imagine two birds, so take your first "shot" with a steady swing through that bird, then try to change direction or accelerate the barrel to target a second. You'll see what I mean by the momentum of the barrel. See what works for you!. My only other advice is forget the 20" coach guns, unless you're a pig hunter.

By the way, I'm not sure how old (or big) you are, but if a 12G with a 28" barrel feels too heavy, I'd try a 20G rather than buying something with a really short barrel. I know 20g guns are harder to find, and so is the ammo (and more expensive), but remember you may be carrying it and swinging it - if you're lucky - quite a lot, and a lighter 20g gun may be a better choice. I actually had a 20G in the UK and I wish I'd kept it, it was great for small fast moving birds like quail.

[Peter O]

Most of what you need to know has been covered here. But I would add a couple of things I have learnt over the years.

The way the barrel is bored effects the pattern produced by the various chokes far more than most people realise.

Not all chokes are the same, one makers full might be another's light full so you should go by measurement.

Barrel length effects swing but also effects the effective range of the gun especially with fixed choke guns.

Fit is more important than, brand, dollars paid, engraving, expensive ammo, grade of walnut or your mates opinion.

[zzsstt]

Most of what you need to know has been covered here. But I would add a couple of things I have learnt over the years.

The way the barrel is bored effects the pattern produced by the various chokes far more than most people realise.

Not all chokes are the same, one makers full might be another's light full so you should go by measurement.

Barrel length effects swing but also effects the effective range of the gun especially with fixed choke guns.

Fit is more important than, brand, dollars paid, engraving, expensive ammo, grade of walnut or your mates opinion.

I'd agree with you on every point except effective range, and on that point I'd perhaps suggest that you started shooting shotties a long time ago? The old style cartridges, like those Ely paper cartridges I used to love, had very slow burning powders and a longer barrel did produce more velocity. Current cartridges will, however, burn all their powder in less than 18 inches of barrel (some in as little as 10 inches), so the longer barrel produces no velocity advantage.

It could be suggested that a longer barrel may give more time for the shots trajectories to become parallel, but I find this hard to believe, because the shot is expected to be still retained in the the wad for most of the length of the barrel, and in any case the choke will compress and deflect the trajectories at the muzzle.

Even if there is some tightening of the pattern (and I'm not convinced that there is), then any perceived additional range would be gained by higher shot density rather than velocity. This would mean more misses at all ranges(smaller kill zone), but kills at marginally greater range if a hit was achieved.... and more shot stuck in your teeth!

On the other hand, it may simply be that the smoother swing with a longer barrel results in more hits at greater range?

17hmr,

Do you know how to mount a shotgun? Because most shotgun shooting is done with the gun starting at a "carried", or "ready" position (for want of a better phrase), you must learn to bring the gun to you shoulder in a smooth and repeatable manner. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this, and the FIT of the gun is all important! With a rifle you have time to get sorted out and take aim, but with a shotgun you don't. This means that if the fit is wrong, you don't have time to adjust and you will miss more than you hit. If you don't know how to do this, or how the gun should fit, DON'T BUY ANYTHING. Let me know and I'll write a quick (?) post on gun fit and mount.