30-30 vs 45-70

[220]

I have 2 marlins, I don't know what sort of accuracy peolpe expect but both of mine shoot better than I was led to belive they would.
357mag will put 3 shots into less than 1" at 50m all day every day and the 30-30 using 160gr Flextip reloads will keep 3 under 1.5" at 100. Even a rossi in 44mag that I had years ago would clover leaf 3 shots at 50. When I purchased the 30-30 all I was after was something that would hold 4" at 100.

Casting my own projectiles for the 357 cost works out to be primer cost plus about 1c worth of powder cheaper than the 22lr for plinking. If you are buying cast projectiles they work out about 10c/projectile jacketed projectiles are $25-40/100

[1kshot]

I purchased the 30-30 all I was after was something that would hold 4" at 100.

Couldnt agree more 220 and a 4" vital zone will bowl over anything designed to hunt with a lever gun.

All the best
John

[deadkelly]

both great lever gun cartridges . for the everyday guy just wanting a good reliable short - medium range game getter . the 30/30 is a excellent choice . but being a reloader & casting my own bullets the 45/70 would be the way to go for me . although the 45/70 guide gun maybe a bit chunky & heavy for everybody . it also can kick quite hard with heavy loads so if using a scope watch out for cut eye brows .

[Seddo]

I have a 45colt Trapper and its a blast to shoot, i wouldn't try and shoot a deer with it but it has it uses. A mate has shot more deer then you can count on both your a hands with a 30-30 so dont discount it. Like everything is you use the right projectile you can do almost everythign with any calibre.

coated lead 45 projes run around $60-80 per 500 so it is cheap to shoot.

[Richta]

Damn Adamjp love what you did with your 30 - 30 just read the write up on AHN! it has me inspired.

[Hawkeye77]

Well, thanks for all the advise... In the end i put a deposit down on a Marlin 30-30win 336SS...

I figured it would be the best choice for the mean time. I remember reading something on here recently about someone being sensible and buying a gun in a calibre he uses rather than buy one in a calibre for 'just in case' purposes, And with that logic, whilst i would love to take the chance if i get it to ever go Sambar stalking, the chances of me actually doing that in the near future are fairly slim so i decided to go with the good ol' dirty thirty as its something i would use and i think would be much more practical for me.
Having said that... I nearly grabbed a 357 or a 44 in a Marlin, i reckon they would be alot more fun to shoot! The only thing is the limited range... Still; very light, quick and nice handling rifles... I guess i'll just have to wait a bit before i get one of those!

On that topic, i was wondering; is it possible to shoot 38 special in a lever gun chambered in 357 mag??? I know it can be done with a revolver because of the forcing cone, but in a rifle isn't the 357 chambered onto the barrel as opposed to sitting in a cylinder? I just thinking that there would be headspacing problems if you chambered the shorter 38 special into a chamber meant for the longer 357 mag??? And this applies also to 44mag and 44 special? 454 casull and 45 colt?...
Can anyone explain this?

Anyway i'll post some pics of my Marlin with some groups when i've got it and given her a test run...

Thanks guys


Hawk

[adamjp]

Yes you can shoot the shorter cartridge in the longer chamber.

BUT

Too much of it will lead up the front of the chamber and that will cause pressures to go out of control as the bullet tries to leave a case which has no clearance to the chamber.

[deadkelly]

can the 336 be rechambered to 357 maximum ?????

[adamjp]

can the 336 be rechambered to 357 maximum ?????

The 336 is not sold in 357 Magnum.

The Marlin 1894 is sold in 357 Magnum, and NO according to a bunch of yanks who have tried, it cannot be converted to 357 Maximum.

A Model 94 Winchester 357 Magnum could be, but they are kinda rare.

[Hawkeye77]

I thought that it could and would be done by alot of shooters but, i still don't get why there wouldn't be a major issue iwth headspacing and case seperations???
Forgive my ignorance but if you cut the neck down to far on another rifle cartridge this will result in the above mentioned problems... correct? Or is that only with higher powered cartridges???
Just trying to get my facts straight

Hawk

[adamjp]

I thought that it could and would be done by alot of shooters but, i still don't get why there wouldn't be a major issue iwth headspacing and case seperations???
Forgive my ignorance but if you cut the neck down to far on another rifle cartridge this will result in the above mentioned problems... correct? Or is that only with higher powered cartridges???
Just trying to get my facts straight

Hawk

These cartridges (38spl, 357Mag, 44Special, 44Mag, 45LongColt, 454 Casull, 460S&W) all headspace on the case rim. Therefore the length of case forward of the rim has SFA to do with headspacing.

Most rifle cartridges (excepting things like 444Marlin, 45/70 and 458 Win Mag) headspace on the shoulder, not the rim. These cases are almost all based on the 8x57 case size in one way or another (8x57 first in 1888, then 30/06 in 1906, then 308 in 1950). The only common non-rimmed/belted cases not based on the 8x57 case are the family of cartridges based on the 222 Remington in 1950 (222, 223, 222Mag, 204, 221, 17Rem, etc.). They all headspace the same way, on the shoulder.

Technically 303 Brit, 22Hornet, 30/30 and belted magnum cartridges headspace on the rim/belt. But as they have shoulders which are well defined, canny reloaders set their dies up so the cases headspace on the shoulder like a 30/06. This improves case life substantially.

Back to your original question, firing a 38Special cartridge in a 357 Magnum chamber will work without danger. The issue comes when after having fired a couple of hundred 'cheap' reloads with lead bullets, you fire a full length 357 Magnum hunting round. The 1/8inch of chamber not used by the 38 Special round has had lead adhere to the walls. This lead changes the chamber specification, and if sufficiently bad, can cause the mouth of the 357 Magnum case to be unable to open enough to let the bullet go correctly. Eventually something will let go so the pressure can come out, but it might be the locking system of the rifle, not the case mouth release we normally want.