Best factory .223 varmint rifle for >1k?

[dave]

Ok narrowed it down a bit he tells me and cant decide

- Savage 12 BVSS
- Rem VSF
- Tikka T3 Varmint

Does anyone have any of these and can they give me a thought on them?

[Knackers]

I've got a VSF in.22/250 and it is a heavy rifle, looks great, shoots .3@100 yards and cost me $1700 with leupold mounts and rings a trigger job and bedded. Your mate would do well to have a close look at JB747's as it looks brand new to me and he sounds like a very fastidius (spelling?) firearm owner and I'm sure it would suit a new buyer.
But yes I reckon they are OK and dont regret ever buying it.

[trevort]

would he got to$1350 for a VT in 204 with 6.5-20x50 Simmons whitetail classic?

[dave]

I mentioned the .204 but he isnt all that keen, i know i would be, but as he dosent reload hes looking for cheap factory ammo so hes currently looking at .223 and .243 as the main options.

Im a bit partial to the Savage BVSS but im trying not to sway his opinion as he likes tikka and rem which is fair enough i guess.

[Archfile]

I think the 243 is a much underrated varmint chambering in some circles, in others of course we know better. If he every does reload there is a huge amount of good brass to choose from and he could quite happily and safely take pigs with the 243 (from what I understand - only pigs I've ever seen are in a frying pan with eggs)

-Arch

[Con]

Savage ... get him to read the Nick Harvey test-report on the 10FP ... then sit down with a calculator and work out the average group size across 3 bullet weights using handloads. Pretty impressive for a factory untuned rifle.
Savage has announced a new model of what to me looks like a 10FP but camoed in Mossy Oak ... might be worth a look?
Cheers...
Con

[kjd]

I think the 243 is a much underrated varmint chambering in some circles, in others of course we know better. If he every does reload there is a huge amount of good brass to choose from and he could quite happily and safely take pigs with the 243 (from what I understand - only pigs I've ever seen are in a frying pan with eggs)

-Arch

Oh bullshit man the 243 is the most overrated cartridge in existence. It does its job but no better then anything else.

[Archfile]

Sir, you misunderstand me.

I'm not a fan, I think its too much powder and noise for what is little more
performance (for our task) than the 6BR or a number of other rounds. BUT I do think that for those americans with their 600+yard varminting, the heavier projectiles and all..

I can see what people see in it, but i do think its too much of a good thing for most of our use, I think that the 22-250 is about as much grunt as we *need* but the bigger stuff is fun sometimes.

(i might be talking shit tho.. my head is spinning our new kitten just purged highspeed poo on the beanbag - new food and stress... god almghty what a stench.. i cant see straight.)

[Con]

ZZZZiiiiiiiiinnnnnngggggggg .... do I hear a fishing reel's drag singing???

Dave,
Get him to also look at the Savage VLP ... personally I think its the nicest of the Savage varmint rifles ... and it cant be had in 243Win
Cheers...
Con

[bushchook]

Oh bullshit man the 243 is the most overrated cartridge in existence. It does its job but no better then anything else.

Lots of rabbits and foxes around here have found differently . 400 FPS over a .22/250 with the same 55gn bullet weight and similar B.C. = increased effective range.

[kjd]

Oh bullshit man the 243 is the most overrated cartridge in existence. It does its job but no better then anything else.

Lots of rabbits and foxes around here have found differently . 400 FPS over a .22/250 with the same 55gn bullet weight and similar B.C. = increased effective range.

And which one made the rabbit more deader? Cmon get your hand off it.

If your after range then why would you chose a 55gn bullet in a 243? Hell out to 250m with a 22-250 or 243 any thing smaller than a fox is dead so how many shots would you take with a 55gn in 243 at over 300m? Don't make sense to. So just find me a fox or a rabbit that says that the 243 kills them better then a 22-250. Lets not mention the extra cost in projectiles and extra powder used.
Both are overkill for the job and I still think that the 243 is over rated when there is a myriad of cartridges that will do its job and more.
Don't make me write a list of what equals or betters the 243 I will be here for a long time.

[bushchook]

Oh bullshit man the 243 is the most overrated cartridge in existence. It does its job but no better then anything else.

Lots of rabbits and foxes around here have found differently . 400 FPS over a .22/250 with the same 55gn bullet weight and similar B.C. = increased effective range.

And which one made the rabbit more deader? Cmon get your hand off it.

If your after range then why would you chose a 55gn bullet in a 243? Hell out to 250m with a 22-250 or 243 any thing smaller than a fox is dead so how many shots would you take with a 55gn in 243 at over 300m? Don't make sense to. So just find me a fox or a rabbit that says that the 243 kills them better then a 22-250. Lets not mention the extra cost in projectiles and extra powder used.
Both are overkill for the job and I still think that the 243 is over rated when there is a myriad of cartridges that will do its job and more.
Don't make me write a list of what equals or betters the 243 I will be here for a long time.

Well as it so happens my favourite varminting spot is one where the warrens are 355 metres from where I shoot . The answer to your question about how many shots I take at rabbits over 300 metres is " plenty" when they're in good numbers . Best I can recall was 13 for 15 shots at ranges from 300 - 355 . Whilst it may be contrary to your personal experience you don't have to be asleep with your hand on your cock to achieve those results . Shooting 2 or 3 times a week helps . A good rifle and scope are a necessity .
Shortly after I rebarelled my Remington 700 from .22/250 to .243 AI I found that hits on this warren from 300 metres weren't really much of a challenge and consequently moved 50 metres further out . If I could get back further I would but have a road right behind me .
Varmint calibres ain't about how dead you kill 'em , they're about how consistently you can hit 'em and at what range . This is why the real long range nuts mainly use .338 calibre wildcats with huge case capacity for mile plus shots on praire dogs and rock chucks . I don't think that those species are actually that much harder to kill than our bunnies !
Anyone that reckons 4050 FPS with a 55gn projectile is a waste of time should try shooting foxes at long range under the light . Range estimation at night is quite difficult (without a rangefinder) and out to 350 metres the flatter your rifle shoots the better chance you have of making a connection .
I've had .22/250 , .220 Swift and .243 (Ackley) . The .243 is undoubtedly more versatile than the other 2 with a choice of either flatter trajectory or heavier , better B.C. projectiles for more downrange grunt and better wind bucking .
Also has a very nice range of quality (conventional and VLD)projectiles available due to the dominance of the 6mm's in benchrest .
As far as I personally am concerned the difference in cost to reload or barrel life vs .223 or .22/250 is a non issue . I'm not a pro roo shooter so don't fire thousands of rounds (thru this rifle) annually . Most other guys are in the same boat .
I'll grant that the 6BR and it's cousins may be a little more accurate and softer on barrels but generally don't feed well from a magazine which for most of us is undesirable . The 6mm Rem. doesn't have good brass available and really is best in a long action if magazine fed . The .204 shoots almost as flat but is limited to foxes and perhaps dogs at the larger end of the "varmint" spectrum . The .25/06 has it's place but suffers a little due to higher recoil and muzzle blast , range of projectiles not so good . Bigger calibres in custom rifles have their place for shots over 800 yards .
Whilst there are better cartridges for specific varminting situations in my experience the .243 is a bloody good all rounder .
Go ahead and write your extensive list of better (for all Australian conditions) factory varmint chamberings . Don't limit us to rabbits at 250 metres please as on a still day and with a couple of sighters I could do that with my K Hornet .

[kjd]

Lmao yay i pissed yet another 243 wanker off. Its so so easy to do just chuck out the bait and reel them in!

I've never shot a "vermint" rifle so I wouldnt know

You missed my point. My point was that in its range the 243 is just another rifle. As good as the 6mm rem not as good as the 25-06 which doesnt kick out of a varmint rifle, the 7mm08 is better and if you want to use the word "versatile" then the 7mm08 kicks the shit out of a 243 (don't whinge look at bullet weight ranges) So you look at all the cartridges that are near the 243 and you see there are plenty more options then the 243 which do the job just as well. I aint going to deny that the 243 out performs the 22-250 hell you'd have to be an idiot to do that.
The 243 is not the be all and end all regardless of what its loyal legion of fans say. Its just not better than anything else.

[kjd]

Sorry for being harsh bushchook I was a bit outta line!

[bushchook]

Apology accepted . Nice to meet someone big enough to say sorry .
Must admit I nearly gave you a serve as can be a bit short tempered myself .