Giving some thought to the perfect spolighting rig

Dr G · Post by **Dr G** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:08 pm

I do a lot of spotlighting, it would represent about 90% of all the shooting I do. I have been thinking for sometime about the perfect set up. I shoot from the cab so this is the sort of rifle I will be talking about as those shooting from the tray need a different set up.

Currently I mainly use the CatKiller but it has some limitations for the style of shooting I use it for. The barrel is too long at 26” and the thumbhole stock makes left handed shooting awkward. Also the scope (Nightforce 8-32x56) is just too big. This gun is chambered in 204 Ruger which is perfect to my mind for this application. Any bigger and you can’t watch the bullet hit which is essential if you need to recover the animal. While any smaller and it wouldn’t be able to meet the minimum spec for roos.

So with that in mind I think the ideal rifle would have a short stiff barrel, around the 20” mark. A synthetic quality ambidextrous stock with an adjustable cheek piece. I think a modified H&S stock like what was fitted to the early Remington VSSF II rifles would be the go.

Also it would need to have an internal magazine as in my experience protruding DBM just gets in the way on door rests and in the absolute worst case the magazine drops out and is lost when the gun slides up on the door rest while you’re driving along.

Scope choice for me would be probably a NXS 3.5-15x50 with an illuminated reticule or similar. Another alternative would be a fixed 8 power, but this can be a bitch for up close shooting. Smaller and more compact is better but I also need to be able to see cat sized targets out to 300m under spotlight conditions.

I would be interested to hear what the expected velocity would be for the 204 from a 20” barrel. I currently get a muzzle velocity of around 3900fps with 27.8gn 2206H pushing a 39gn Sierra BK. I know people talk of 25fps/inch but Phil Sharpe’s experiments in the 50’s show this to be incorrect with an average loss of around 12fps (http://www.guns.com/2012/02/16/the-myth ... city-loss/) if this is the case then 6 inches would see a loss of around 72fps or even just 96fps if I went extreme and dropped to an 18” barrel.

For the more technically minded I would ask what other issues might arise from shortening a barrel this much, given that the action is a trued custom (Stiller Predator). With a short barrel would increasing the rate of twist help with stability?

Anyway a few thoughts to stir discussion and hopefully give me some advice as I contemplate CatKiller II

stinkitup · Post by **stinkitup** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:08 pm

Sounds like a plan Dr!

My next build in 358 will only be pretty close to 20, be easier to carry through the thick stuff as well as in the car.

I think other than my target rifle my longest barrel is 23 inches or thereabouts and works pretty good from the car as we don't have a ute so shoot from the car most trips in the past. 20 would be handy and doubt any cat would notice the 6 inches of difference at 300m.

Nightforce also has the new SHV scope as well 4-14x56.

Look forward to seeing what you put together.

Ryan

Knackers · Post by **Knackers** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:24 pm

Sounds like a perfect set up for a ute rifle, cant advise on the barrel shortening Vs velocity. But I did go and check something for you. I have an 8x40 Tasco on my .223 and have taken it off and on again over the years swapping with variables and keep coming back to the 8x40. Point and shoot, never have to focus anything, ask Trevort, it's good for 300mtrs no problems day or night (lots less glass in a fixed) but anyway I measured the field of view for you, at 16mtrs you have a 38" field, fit a whole fox including his tail. Hope it helps in you decision making.

choppy2925 · Post by **choppy2925** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:26 pm

I just went through the same process and have settled on a sako 85 rebarrelled in straight 204, (the 223 barrel had been shot out). I went to 24 inches but will also be curious about performance of a shorter barrel.

I personally don't believe the nightforce scopes have the performance of other euro scopes at night, in clear light and tracking they are great but to my eye the zeiss, swaro perform better at night and can be had for the same price.

trevort · Post by **trevort** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:41 pm

Doc the CZ 527 action, being so small, allows an extra few inches of barrel to reduce the risk of velocity loss.

The yanks also sell a flush bottom metal and 3 shot mag to stop the protruding mag problem.

Just another option

Glenn · Post by **Glenn** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:16 pm

I brought a 260 with a 22 inch barrel last year.
Have been shooting it a bit out of the car and it is a little better to move around the car!

I think 20 inch's is a bit short for the 204, 22 to 24 would be good!

I rebuilt my 20PPC a while ago for the same reason as you.
I had the barrel turned due to the fact it was just way to big and heavy!
Your 204 was built by the same smith who thought every gun he built was a target gun
and fitted a truck axles to them!
Spotlighting guns need a bit of weight but not that much that it makes if hard to move around the car!

The 20PPC is perfect now for shooting out of the car!
I left the barrel at 26 inch's, I found it was the weight not the length that was the problem.
Number 5 or 6 is perfect weight for a spotlighting gun.

As for the magazines don't know all me spotlighting guns are single shot!

Glenn

Camel · Post by **Camel** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:05 pm

Some of my thoughts:

22 or 24 inch, I go with 24, number 4 profile on my 20/222, good compromise between weight and stiffness.
Have my 22 scope set on 8 power, have no troubles getting rabbits down to 10 m a little blurry any closer. I think focus is more important than power in my instance.
Agree with the sticky down magazines, wish I could get a 22 that didn't have them poking out, but then that would be too slow for me a lot of the time.

why do you need an ambidexterous stock ? I have thumbhole stocks on my work rifles and can use them quite adequately left handed, but that isn't too often I will admit.

the other techo stuff I will leave to others that will know what they are talking about.

stinkitup · Post by **stinkitup** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:35 pm

trevort wrote:Dc the CZ 527 action, being so small, allows an extra few inches of barrel to reduce the risk of velocity loss.

The yanks also sell a flush bottom metal and 3 shot mag to stop the protruding mag problem.

Just another option

Very true my 527 is shorter than my brno model 2.

zook60 · Post by **zook60** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:43 pm

I have a sako 85 20" 223 that I purchased for this reason. My thoughts are the 204 will be robbed at 20" and at night it will be very blasty. My main criteria for a spotlighting gun was the short varmint profile barrel and top loading magazine. The sako varmint ticked all the boxes for me.

Knackers · Post by **Knackers** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:44 pm

stinkitup wrote:
trevort wrote:Dc the CZ 527 action, being so small, allows an extra few inches of barrel to reduce the risk of velocity loss.

The yanks also sell a flush bottom metal and 3 shot mag to stop the protruding mag problem.

Just another option
Very true my 527 is shorter than my brno model 2.

Hey,mine too,

Jacko9 · Post by **Jacko9** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:48 pm

Well I built a rifle for this exact purpose off a cz527. Maddco 23' standard brno profile barrel chambered in 223 with a 1-10 twist rate (just suits my area well) topped with a kahles hella c 2.5-10x50, if I find the scope is too big physically and wrecking the handling of the rifle, I've got a 3-9x42 helia ct to try.

Branxhunter · Post by **Branxhunter** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:03 pm

Sounds like a sensible set up Dr G.

For the scope I would look at a Euro scope in the 3-15 or 4-16 magnification range. My Zeiss conquest 6.5-20 rarely goes above 10x under the spotlight. The reticle is fine enough not to block out too much without being too fine to acquire quickly.

Marcus

Teepee · Post by **Teepee** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:12 pm

Hi Dr G,
Just spent half an hour typing in an answer to your topic.
And then lost the bloody thing!
Anyway, what I was going to suggest
I have a 23" brl, works well in a vehicle I find. I like the wilddog stock that I use.and I use a 6-24 x 56 scope, usually set at around 16-18.
It's not light, but then I like the way it feels.
While I've used the 204, I prefer the 20/250. I find it gives me a bit more room for error, and I need every bit of help I can get.
To my mind, it's everything you could ask for.
Just saying!

Dr G · Post by **Dr G** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:24 am

Some good replays here fellas.

The action when I get it will be a rem 700 clone or cheaper donor. I already have the stock.

Camel I often switch to left handed when shooting alone. On my HMR it's not too bad, but I find it bloody uncomfortable with the thumbhole.

Glenn, I had Shane stick with a Remington varmint profile for the CatKiller so it's not as heavy as many that rolled out of his shop. I have contemplated getting it shortened but it is so bloody accurate I am nervous to fiddle with it.

Anyway it's mostly conjecture at the moment, I am still paying for that wedding

B4408 · Post by **B4408** » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:21 am

Dr G,
Thinking of Zook's comment on muzzle blast. Is it important to see your shot hit? If it is will the short barrel result in more muzzle flash at night and be a problem. Don't know the answer for 20 cals, my 243 MLR lever lets out a big flame, interested to hear from those with short barrels.

Bruce

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