My 223, 260, and 22lr

[chris.tyne]

The LGS has one of those Sako's on the shelf,I was only checking it out the other day ................pretty slick.

[kickinback]

Sorry, re the saving post bit, I received an email from the forum management they would be terminating anyone who had not posted in the past 12 months, That's the reason for the remark.
Re some ones previous post about fox shooting and not needing all that guff I posted. I used to shoot over 20 foxes a night taken out to 250yards with a 17MK IV or 17-222Rem. These were for skins so had to be hit centre. Any lower the bottom jaw would be damaged badly or a little high off would come the top of the head. At $40 a skin you need a lot of guff and very accurate rifles that don't change point of impact. I can shoot them all season without adjusting the scope. They look like crap so you wouldn't want one being made with one idea in mind and that's accuracy and light weight. Definitely not a wall hanger or something to drool over.

I was speaking to a knowledgeable friend still shooting foxes using a 22PPC for head shots that will stay in the head without exit.
The recipe is load it flat out and shoot 45 gn very open pointed bullets. I actually made their 45 gn bullets on .650" long jackets.
Some years ago I chest shot a few foxes with a 22PPC accuracy load and 52gn projectiles I made and they didn't exit. Suppose you are getting the message I'm a devout 22PPC shooter.

In the last few years I notice a lot of guys are using fast twist 223's with less accuracy and more copper fouling due to the greater bearing surface. Call me old fashioned but will stay with the 52 and 55 gn projectiles.
I'm sorry most of my information is derived from self made products and I know you all want to be able to go into a shop and buy just what is made in USA and has been given a big plug by their writers so their is really no reason to post.

I'm definitely going to keep my membership now with 2 posts. If I was critical I would mention those 5 motions to the left give non shooters a poor impression of what varmint shooting is all about. Our image is not real good so they are looking for something to make a bad story about shooting in general.

Oze, I've been giving some serious thought to making my own projectiles of late. If you have something to share in this matter, please do. As for wanting something from a shop, well, convenience is pretty handy.

Have a good one.

Glen

[Ackley Improved]

45 grainers not exiting on a foxes head out of a 22PPC? 50-55 grainers no good to me for longer ranges either?

[chris.tyne]

Ozeboy how were you making the projectiles,what jackets,who's dies,what cores........................I am interested as I now have access to some gear to make them.

[Matt P]

Looks nice in the stock !!!!

[kjd]

Awesome rifles AI. I particularly like the 260, looks great, would make an ideal hunting partner for most situations!

Cheers

BB

Im with him.

but reading your post about barrel life got me looking quizzical. Why would you even mention that when you only keep them long enough to run them in?

Running in barrels lol. Must have been a barrel maker or ammo seller that made that up.

Beautiful rifles mate!

[Ozeboy]

Chris, I would not suggest making bullets these days as the Sierra or J4 jackets have been overprice to a point where you can just about buy Berger projectiles made on J4's for the same price. If you are a keen Benchrest shooter then going through all the paper work to land a jacket shipment may be worth it. A few pluses and minuses below.

Minuses.
A good die set from a top tradesman in USA will cost about $3,000 plus extra $1000 if you want to make boatails
Made properly with extra punches to get core seating just right will cost $150 a punch , I have 12 extra just for 224 cal
A good laydown press can cost $1500 but you can also make them on a rockchucker with modified ram if not fussy.
Ordering jackets is no problem but the paperwork now is a nightmare. Delivery can be slow.
Lead wire is expensive but some guys seem to be able to get that cheaper.
I have a pneumatic ram set up that makes better bullets than I can by hand, which cost a packet.
The outlay on a credit card would eat up any profit you may make by selling them.
Benchrest shooters in Australia will only buy USA products whether they be better or a lot of times inferior. There are a few exceptions.

Pluses.
You can duplicate bullets exactly when you get an extra good batch of Jackets. They do vary but J4 guarantee excellent concentricity.
The slight left over swaging lube and J4 metal seems to produce less copper fouling than commercial projectiles. I formulate my own.
You will initially get a buzz out of making your own particularly if they shoot records. Is that warm fuzzy feeling you get worth all that outlay. My smallest group out of a 6x47 was .068" @ 100 so you will have something good to look forward and back on.
I love to shoot my 52 and 56.5 gn boattails in the field despite the cost. They are so trouble free, very explosive and makes cleaning a dream.
In the event of government regulation changes you will be in a good position to keep shooting.

Being the first in Australia to make custom projectiles in 224 , 243 and 308 all in Detsch dies produced a lot of orders but it's a boring repetitive operation that today is not a viable business considering the outlay. You are better to get one of the present custom makers to make them for you. It will be a lot cheaper in the long run.

That's the most accurate and truthful I can be when asked about making custom projectiles. Hope this helps you make a decision.

[Ozeboy]

Ackley, how many game do you shoot over 250 yards during a days hunting? That's about the guaranteed hit range of a 52 gn bullet at 3,500 ft second on a reasonably calm day. There are always flukes out to 350 where hits can't be guaranteed. I don't like injured animals. There's nothing wrong with heavier projectiles except fast twist slows velocity and extra bearing surface produces more copper fouling. When you look at velocity, twist, bullet length and diameter the slowest twist that will stabilise a certain projectile is the most accurate. There is also a problem making long jackets as concentric as shorter ones. Jacket concentricity plays a large part in accuracy.
To prove one of my concerns I actually made jackets from .715 up to .740 in 10 thou increments.

Experimenting and wildcatting can be so interesting. Perhaps a day spent shooting targets from 100 out to 500 with 69gn Hornandy BT and 52 Gn BT would be a day well spent. Every weekend you will find experimenters at Silverdale Range testing rather than thinking it may be better. I suggest you join them and improve your field shooting.

You will have to excuse me but I'm a bit busy to post, the acres need mowing and everything needs watering.

[trevort]

Awesome rifles AI. I particularly like the 260, looks great, would make an ideal hunting partner for most situations!

Cheers

BB

Im with him.

but reading your post about barrel life got me looking quizzical. Why would you even mention that when you only keep them long enough to run them in?

Running in barrels lol. Must have been a barrel maker or ammo seller that made that up.

Beautiful rifles mate!

Keith did you miss the point on purpose. The comment want about whether a barrel should be run in or not, its about the fact that he doesn't keep them very long. In fact, since posting he's listed one for sale already!!

[kjd]

Keith did you miss the point on purpose. The comment want about whether a barrel should be run in or not, its about the fact that he doesn't keep them very long. In fact, since posting he's listed one for sale already!!

I didnt miss that mate I was

[chris.tyne]

Chris, I would not suggest making bullets these days as the Sierra or J4 jackets have been overprice to a point where you can just about buy Berger projectiles made on J4's for the same price. If you are a keen Benchrest shooter then going through all the paper work to land a jacket shipment may be worth it. A few pluses and minuses below.

Minuses.
A good die set from a top tradesman in USA will cost about $3,000 plus extra $1000 if you want to make boatails
Made properly with extra punches to get core seating just right will cost $150 a punch , I have 12 extra just for 224 cal
A good laydown press can cost $1500 but you can also make them on a rockchucker with modified ram if not fussy.
Ordering jackets is no problem but the paperwork now is a nightmare. Delivery can be slow.
Lead wire is expensive but some guys seem to be able to get that cheaper.
I have a pneumatic ram set up that makes better bullets than I can by hand, which cost a packet.
The outlay on a credit card would eat up any profit you may make by selling them.
Benchrest shooters in Australia will only buy USA products whether they be better or a lot of times inferior. There are a few exceptions.

Pluses.
You can duplicate bullets exactly when you get an extra good batch of Jackets. They do vary but J4 guarantee excellent concentricity.
The slight left over swaging lube and J4 metal seems to produce less copper fouling than commercial projectiles. I formulate my own.
You will initially get a buzz out of making your own particularly if they shoot records. Is that warm fuzzy feeling you get worth all that outlay. My smallest group out of a 6x47 was .068" @ 100 so you will have something good to look forward and back on.
I love to shoot my 52 and 56.5 gn boattails in the field despite the cost. They are so trouble free, very explosive and makes cleaning a dream.
In the event of government regulation changes you will be in a good position to keep shooting.

Being the first in Australia to make custom projectiles in 224 , 243 and 308 all in Detsch dies produced a lot of orders but it's a boring repetitive operation that today is not a viable business considering the outlay. You are better to get one of the present custom makers to make them for you. It will be a lot cheaper in the long run.

That's the most accurate and truthful I can be when asked about making custom projectiles. Hope this helps you make a decision.

Mate I thank you for the detailed reply,you touched on the reason why I am considering doing this.............the satisfaction,near everything I do costs money and I would like the satisfaction of making and then using my own projectiles.
I understand that if I was going to pay myself for the time involved as well as the costs in equipment and components .................I would laugh and be better of giving Karl. k. $3 per projectile and be still in front.

[doidge5781]

Hey Ackley where did you get the defiance action was it locally bought or did you import it yourself?

[Ackley Improved]

Hey Ackley where did you get the defiance action was it locally bought or did you import it yourself?

Complete rifle was imported!

[Ackley Improved]

Ackley, how many game do you shoot over 250 yards during a days hunting? That's about the guaranteed hit range of a 52 gn bullet at 3,500 ft second on a reasonably calm day. There are always flukes out to 350 where hits can't be guaranteed. I don't like injured animals. There's nothing wrong with heavier projectiles except fast twist slows velocity and extra bearing surface produces more copper fouling. When you look at velocity, twist, bullet length and diameter the slowest twist that will stabilise a certain projectile is the most accurate. There is also a problem making long jackets as concentric as shorter ones. Jacket concentricity plays a large part in accuracy.
To prove one of my concerns I actually made jackets from .715 up to .740 in 10 thou increments.

Experimenting and wildcatting can be so interesting. Perhaps a day spent shooting targets from 100 out to 500 with 69gn Hornandy BT and 52 Gn BT would be a day well spent. Every weekend you will find experimenters at Silverdale Range testing rather than thinking it may be better. I suggest you join them and improve your field shooting.

You will have to excuse me but I'm a bit busy to post, the acres need mowing and everything needs watering.

Mate

I hunt mainly foxes, most are shot from 200-400m. It is the type of shooting I do. I have shot a few in the 400m plus, and one which is my PB at 615m. I understand you about all this stuff and concentricity, but I know how accurate my rifles are at range, and the 0.1-0.2" at 100m you can gain over me for instance, really doesn't mean anything on a fox size target at 500m. You are talking a 1" advantage?? That 0.1-0.2" advantage goes away once longer ranges and better ballistics on the heavier bullets. I can also be 2" high at 100m, and still have a 4" point blank range to 230m odd. So aim centre of fox, it is hit.

I also don't need to go along to Silverdale and improve my field shooting, it is fine just the way it is thanks!!! I don't fluke at 350m either!!

Cheers

[DSD]

I would have to agree that 350 would not be a fluke most fclass shooters would not find that to be to difficult a shot. Some old farmers will even do it by guesstimation.