AusVarmint

As some may be aware there is intent to amend the current grading system within Clubs affiliated with the NSW Small Bore Association. In my opinion it's a long awaited amendment.

Hopefully an A grade shooter will no longer be able to cunningly and deliberately place shots into the 9 ring to improve his handicap-if he's not performing (shooting above 198.5 they will be regraded to B grade).

Now, some may ask, just what is this handicap? In Small Bore once you have been graded (this is done by averaging your scores) the handicap system is applied by taking your last three shot scores-adding them together then dividing them by 3. The following week the handicap is then added to his or her 'off the barrel' score. Its confusing, in fact one almost need be a physicist to understand and for too long it's been abused by the shonks-it's almost like the sport has been turned into a game of snooker.

Some may even have the audacity to suggest that when in Rome do as they do-but that's not what 'sportmanship' is about.

The amendment will ensure that only those competitors who are consistently shooting above 198.5 will remain as A grade shooters.

The only people that should be approved a handicap are those with genuine disabilities and fellow competitors should be shooting to improve the consistency of their scores and win on merit and not to win by the convenience of a handicap in Club competition.

It's a little hard to stomach that one can be consistent week in week out and yet be beaten by someone that is erratic and inconsistent.

Hi Sean , i was un aware there was such a handicap system in place. The only handicap system i knew of was when everyone competes together, such as in the sporter class in most comps you go too, A B C and D grades all shoot and then the person running the comp would decide which target to take the handicap from. Which gives everyone a chance to win a prize,eg if Joe Bloggs shoots 183 187 185 = 555 and say they took the handicap from the 187 which would be 13x3=39 add that to his score of 555 would come to 594 total. Its just like in golf ,gives the higher handicaper sunday hacker a chance to beat Tiger Woods. But as for those people who deliberately shoot off just to stay in a lower grade to win a prize in a comp , and you know who you are, your fooling no one but yourselves. When im in the position ready to shoot,im always trying to hit an X ring bugger the ten ring ! I know of people who do this,some of them are even mates of mine, but i dont condonne this, as its only taking away from somebody who is not as good as shot as you. Lets face it half the prizes you win ,you can go out and buy yourself or you can go buy a trophy and ingrave your name on it ,cheaper then spending fuel ,entry fee and ammo and time shooting against a lower grade shooter. May be these peolpe want to be in the lime light to make themselves feel better, i dont know. But my plans are to shoot better to go up grades not shoot off to to stay in lower grades. Il get off my high horse for now and il see you at the range Sean. Cheers Ron

Sounds like the ISSF pistol shooting handicap system is better.
Maximum possable score minus the competitors best score x0.9
eg. (600-500)=100x0.9 = 90
A competitor who's best score is 500 would have a handicap of 90. This is based on the best score shot anywhere from club level up. Same with grades if you shoot A grade once at your local club you are in A grade for life.
To be down graded you must apply to your club who if they agree with the application forward it to the state association. To be considered for down grading you must not of shot too grade for 2 years, have shot the match regularly in that time and if granted are ineligable to compete in the lower grade at open competition for 6 months.

I have never seen handicap scores used anywhere apart from club level in pistol events.
Open competition up to and including state tittles are shot in grades.
You would be lucky to see 1/2 dozen grade breaks even at state tittles. When you think there are 9 events and 5 grades within each it gives you an idea of how well it works. It is not unusual to be in the medals at open competition even with a below grade score.

Hi folks,

I like the handicap system used at my local SSAA range.

Your handicap is taken from the average of your best three scores in the previous 12 months. You shoot 342, 343, and 344 out of 400 at Field Rifle as your 3 best scores over the last year, and the average (343) subtracted from 400 gives the handicap (57). If you then shoot a 345, the handicap event is scored as:
400 (highest possible) minus 345 equals 55.
55 divided by 57 equals 96.5%
Your handicap score for the comp is 96.5%
And using these figures, the handicap (57) would drop to 56 for the next club comp, to reflect the average of the new highest three scores.
Whoever shoots the lowest percentage against their handicap, wins the handicap pin. And whoever shoots the highest % against their handicap gets to retrieve the 200m flag at the end of the day.

I don't believe this arrangement gives any great benefit in throwing a shot, and it allows lesser shooters a chance at seeing a bit of success.
Having said that, I'll freely admit that I've just managed to claw my way into B grade for Field rifle, so the handicapping gives me a chance as well (the scores used above are pretty close to my own - I'm getting there, slowly ). And it's quite a challenge to try and keep getting under that 100% mark.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

edit to add: I didn't vote, as I have nothing to do with the NSW Small Bore Association.

regards, curan.

I've been working on a system for my f-class club where we have sporadic attendances and a real mix of equipment and skills but not enough members to grade or group shooters.

The biggest problem for handicapping was the sporadic attendances. Running the scores for previous years I found that generally everyone shot better or worse together (with the odd exception). With conditions playing a huge part in f-class this causes problems trying to determine a handicaps for a shooter who shot on the good days, and shooters who shot on the bad days and make them relate fairly to each other.

I ended up with a system where I compare the shooters score with the average for the day. I calculate this as a percentage value. The Handicap is an average of 3 of these percentages and it's applied their score at the next shoot.

The adjusted scores for the shoot are ranked from 1 being the best and the shooter is assigned points accordingly. I did the points thing because a member had issues with seeing things that looked like scores. He couldn't handle that an adjusted score could go above the 120 max for f-std or that some people had negative handicaps. But it had to be fair.

Anyway the score is 10 points for 1st, 7 for second, 6 for third and so on (10/sqrt(position))

I'm pretty happy with it because it seems to reward shooters who show improvement.

I don't know how it will work with shooters who try and manipulate the system as it's not something that we have to worry about. I looked at different formulas for the scores but found that the consistent shooters got left out if the points gaps from 1st to say 5th was too large. I am using a weighted average for determining the scores though. It puts less emphasis on the highest and lowest scores for the day.

I seriously oppose handicaps, as well as grading.

What's the point of getting better if you can be mediocre and win on handicap?

Why get better if you are smashing everybody in C grade, but not scoring well enough to get to B grade?

I know the "boo hoo" brigade will jump on this, but harden the fuck up. It's not the special Olympics, and not everyone can be a winner.

Grading and handicaps are for blouse wearing poodle walkers. Throw away the tampon and shoot with the men.

Mick wrote:I seriously oppose handicaps, as well as grading.

What's the point of getting better if you can be mediocre and win on handicap?

Why get better if you are smashing everybody in C grade, but not scoring well enough to get to B grade?

I know the "boo hoo" brigade will jump on this, but harden the fuck up. It's not the special Olympics, and not everyone can be a winner.

Grading and handicaps are for blouse wearing poodle walkers. Throw away the tampon and shoot with the men.

To the first part of your post your reasoning is why i've been trying to come up with a system that rewards improvement.

To the second part of your post consider that handicaps are there to even out the equipment differences between guys shooting target rigs and those shooting hunting sporters.

Not much fun for the guy shooting his arse off with his factory tikka and haris bipod to get flogged every week by the guy with the barnard/broughton combo. I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there shooting factory sporters waiting for some loudmouth to donate them some target rigs.

m12vlp wrote:

Mick wrote:I seriously oppose handicaps, as well as grading.

What's the point of getting better if you can be mediocre and win on handicap?

Why get better if you are smashing everybody in C grade, but not scoring well enough to get to B grade?

I know the "boo hoo" brigade will jump on this, but harden the fuck up. It's not the special Olympics, and not everyone can be a winner.

Grading and handicaps are for blouse wearing poodle walkers. Throw away the tampon and shoot with the men.

To the first part of your post your reasoning is why i've been trying to come up with a system that rewards improvement.

To the second part of your post consider that handicaps are there to even out the equipment differences between guys shooting target rigs and those shooting hunting sporters.

Not much fun for the guy shooting his arse off with his factory tikka and haris bipod to get flogged every week by the guy with the barnard/broughton combo. I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there shooting factory sporters waiting for some loudmouth to donate them some target rigs.

I'm shooting far from a custom actioned rig. My bench gun is a trued rem 700 and tru flite barrel. I still say harden up. Driving it right makes all the difference. I don't cry when I don't win, but I still beat an arse load of custom actioned, match grade barrelled rifles with better optics, rests and stocks.

I'll be more blunt. Grading and handicaps are for faggots who cant deal with second place or worse.

m12vlp wrote: To the first part of your post your reasoning is why i've been trying to come up with a system that rewards improvement.

To the second part of your post consider that handicaps are there to even out the equipment differences between guys shooting target rigs and those shooting hunting sporters.

Not much fun for the guy shooting his arse off with his factory tikka and haris bipod to get flogged every week by the guy with the barnard/broughton combo. I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there shooting factory sporters waiting for some loudmouth to donate them some target rigs.

Whilst I personally dont give a rats about handicap systems as I tend to shoot in areas which are based on run what you brung these days, I would say in regard to the idea that you can even out the equipment differences with handicap systems is just never going to work.

The fact is that despite the misguided beliefs of the NRAA you cant make a silk purse from a sows ear. The mere suggestion that they use an even playing field is a joke and always will be even in TR the line is covered in actions, barrels and triggers of various quality from standard Omarks to RPA's and every possible combination in between so no even playing field there, but take a Stolle to the line and you get told how its too much better, how can a Stolle be too much better than an Omark but an RPA isnt?????

The handloader has an advantage over the guy using NRAA ammo. A good handloader has an advantage over the poor handloader. The guy who can afford the best sights has an advantage as well .. it just goes on and on.

The only thing that remains true is that equipment can only do so much and it does nothing without the effort of the shooter wether its technique, ammunition or wind reading and I have still never seen a shop that sells patience.

If you want to handicap you will please some and hurt others if you dont the same applies ... the question we should be asking is why isnt the guy with the handicap doing more to improve rather than relying on free adjustments of scores???? And should we punish those who put in the effrot by giving free points to those who dont do the work to earn them?????

If field rifle is worth pursuing get the NRAA to put it back in the SSR's then they can all shoot factory rifles together.

Rinso wrote: Whilst I personally dont give a rats about handicap systems as I tend to shoot in areas which are based on run what you brung these days, I would say in regard to the idea that you can even out the equipment differences with handicap systems is just never going to work.

So far it seems to be.

This is at a club level where everyone tries their best. With less than 10 shooters it's very much "run what you brung" and half the shooters are breaking the strict rules of the NRAA and none of us give a rats because that's not what it's about.

For one simple reason ,i like the Heavy Gun Rules in Long Range Benchrest ..There are stuff all rules!! NSV..No grading,No Handicaps ..That said if the systems talked about here help with numbers then go for it ..WE need new shooters in every type of match ,loose the right to compete like we did recently and a new perspective opens up ..JR..jeff Rogers..ps .. i would prefere to see more classes to cover the range of competitors that turn up ,than have grading/handicaps.. this is why we in the Nth have a Factory class at all distances

a.JR spot on on all fronts as usual.

It's a numbers building game. The old clubs have been in rapid decline for so long with nothing done to try and stop it that for many of them it's reached a crisis point. They've gone way past trying to simply get extra target shooters. They're now just trying to get anyone through the door that they can in order to survive.

m12vlp wrote:a.JR spot on on all fronts as usual.

It's a numbers building game. The old clubs have been in rapid decline for so long with nothing done to try and stop it that for many of them it's reached a crisis point. They've gone way past trying to simply get extra target shooters. They're now just trying to get anyone through the door that they can in order to survive.

The biggest problem is that the welcome received by new shooters particularly if not shooting TR is less then accomodating in many cases. Add to that when you do get a welcome its only from a few and most will still treat you like an outsider ... sad but true.

Until some of the old school actually leave the range for good the same old problems will keep appearing ... like making a special class for old TR shooters in F Standard for example but wont make a factory class to encourage new blood. Wait till the new targets come in next year and watch the rapid decline of scores and members as the old guard suddenly realise they are just not up to it anymore.

I'll be more blunt. Grading and handicaps are for faggots who cant deal with second place or worse.

LMAO agree totally, no handicap's or grading's, and as a.J.R said, more classes to cover equipment used. Just my two bob's worth