AusVarmint

Guys---jump over to the 6mm BR site and check out the videos of the long range shooting ranges ---www.youtube.com/kongbergKME
If we had these down at Canberra for the 500m Fly, I might be able to hit the bloody Fly
Cheers Malcolm

Malcom,

The Kongsberg system is used at the Anakie East range near Geelong. Works very well. Will soon be available at all ranges between 300m and 900m.

Alan

Couldn't get the link to work.

Can someone please explain what system you are taliking about ?

The link is http://www.youtube.com/kongsbergKME. The system gives you a plot of your shots on a computer screen as they hit the target - it also records your score directly into a stats program. Its accurate to sub 1mm. Cost is approx $3 - 4k per target in a multi-target setup.

Alan

Thank you.

Where is the range at Anakie ?

500nitro

If you go to the VRA website [vra.asn.au] there is a link on the left for rifle ranges. This opens a map of Victorian rnages. Click on the Anakie East range [red dot just above the 's' in east] and there is a link to the Geelong RC webpage. They have location info posted.

Have visited the range and seen the system in action...quite impressive in how well it can differentiate almost overlapping shots. The way of the future? most certainly but the initial outlay for the system is reasonably large.

Thank you.

Would be great on a personal range !

Sorry guys--left out the "s" on the link---must be my dislexia.
$3-4k per target---a descent spotting scope is nearly that--I'd opt for the krongberg system---if it's legal
Merry Christmas Malcolm

malcolm,

IBS rules clearly state that once record targets are up, then no sighter shots may be fired or feedback from the target recieved.
The only exception is what you can see via you scope either rifle or spotting.
I also dont believe from personel experience that seeing fall of shot is benefical in all circumstances. Sometimes not seeing whats happening at the other end results in better scores.

cheers
Rinso

Do

This technology is going to be a huge benefit to fullbore and F-Class for those ranges that can afford it. It has the potential to eliminate the need for manual marking, improve the standard of marking, and the speed of the feedback will allow shooting as fast as the shooter can reload i.e. at or approaching BR "machine-gunning" speeds. At Geelong they've found they get much more shooting time for the time spent on the range.

I agree it won't be a good fit with BR, although great for testing loads at long range. A ladder test could be fed straight into the computer, along with chrono figures via serial or USB cable.

Alan

AlanF,

As you say this system is great for NRAA based matches and I agree that it would make practice and load development much quicker and easier.

I think however that you will find over time that the benefits to actual results are just not there. The idea of seeing where the bullet prints on the target is only a good thing if and I do mean if the bullet prints about where the shooter expected it too.

If however its appears in a totally different position all you have done is convinced yourself that you have no idea where the wind is and you have 9 shots left. This obviously poses more issues in group shooting than it does in score shooting but at the end of the day what did you learn ..

1. I miss read the flags and thats why its out there

2. I never had a clue

3. What do I do now ? do I shoot based on that last shot, do I adjust off it or do I disregard it as shooter error.

I think that will do you head in pretty quick, especially at the 300 yd mound at the ACT Queens. I don't see you as better off.

Just my opinion.

cheers
Rinso

Rinso wrote:...3. What do I do now ? do I shoot based on that last shot, do I adjust off it or do I disregard it as shooter error...

Rinso,

I think you can have an each way bet i.e. shoot partly based on the last shot. I like to use all the evidence e.g. flags, mirage, position of last shot (and previous shot to a lesser extent), and give an approximate mental "weighting" to each. Of all of those things I would usually give the biggest weighting to the last shot.

Of course you have to think in terms your expected size of group - if a wide shot is still just within your expected group size, then you would allow a much lesser amount for it.

That's how I look at it anyway.

Interesting discussion.

Alan

Alan,

I agree you can make an educated guess and yes you should take all things into consideration but when you have fired a shot wide and you are shooting for group you are left in no mans land.

1. You obviously have not picked the wind .. but at the time of shooting you thought you had.

2. If I aim off based on that 1st shot and I get the wind right (remember we thought we were right the first time) then I have now split my group.

3. Where do I aim for shot 3 ???? It creates a a situation that puts you no where.

If you had no feedback and trusted the flags and mirage you might be in the 8 ring but you have a good group. And thats what BR is about.

As I said it might work for score shoots but since the introduction of the spotted method of shooting at 1000yd BR results have not shown any benefit to spotted shooters in fact the blind shooters have there own way in both group and score results at most events. This is the same in England where they shoot blind and spotted.

This leads me to believe that seeing fall of shot is not always an advantage.

cheers
Rinso

Rinso,

I was actually talking about score shooting which is all I have done. However, surely one of the reasons that the spotted method is less successful than blind in BR is that you have to wait for the target to be pulled down, spotted, then raised. The electronic targets eliminate that time penalty. I can't see how having too much information can be a disadvantage - after all, you aren't required to act on it - but there will probably be times when it will be useful e.g. when there is a substantial wind shift in the middle of a shoot. If your first shot in the new condition is out of the previous group, at least you can use that knowledge to move the remaining shots in the direction of the earlier group, to prevent the group from growing further.

I want emphasise that I am NOT suggesting that electronic targets be used in BR - just discussing the technical aspects if it were.

Alan