AusVarmint

Just wanted to pass on some info that was recently written in the PS magazine of a test done with three F Class rifles all fired at a 1000 yards. One was a 6.5/284 firing a 142 SMK at about 2960 fps, another was a 7/300 WSM firing a 180 Berger at 2940 fps and lastly a 300 WSM firing a 210 Berger at about 2990 fps. The rifles were all zeroed and then later fired on a contollers call so that with the same aim and the wind the same for all shots fired simultaniously, the drift component could be measured. All up 14 shots were fired in this way with the end result being that the 7mm, like its higher BC would indicate, did indeed have less drift on average of about 2 inches. The 6.5 was next best but only just over the 30 by a hair.
This test would of course be more useful to us here in Aus if the 7 and 30 used Sierra or Amax pills, but nonetheless it does show that the 6.5 is not outclassed by much at 1K. I would have liked to see the vertical spread though as the 6.5 and 7 used one in eight twist barrels while the 30 used a 10.
If you are interested in this in more detail, the entire report is written in the April 2007 edition of Precision Shooter.

Tony Z.

That is a real good test.

The calibers and projectiles are very similar out far. Shows similar BC results in similar drift.

I always here people complaining of vertical with 6.5's. Now is this a proven thing, or just a excuse people use for poor shooting? I here the word vertical thrown around a lot, but with the little 6mm I have not seen much problem with vertical.

What I have heard is that the 6.5's are a little sensitive to neck tension, and if that is the case, better reloading skills and brass prep maybe the problem?

I dont know, just throwing some ideas around here!

Cheers
AI

AI wrote,

but with the little 6mm I have not seen much problem with vertical

Mate if you did not have trouble with vertical at Bateman's Bay .. and the cross wind was not strong enough to move your pony tail ... Then can you explain what happened to the Dasher

Bloody 6mm's ... Give me a 30 mag everytime

cheers
Rinso

,well

Well Hey Jeff,

Yes mate the calm conditions turned out to be a suprise for some .. I never could understand how a windless day was going to make the 30 magnum group worse while at the same time making the pop guns group better.

Turns out I was right. Except for Peter Van Muers who shot very well the top 5 included a 300 Win Mag, 6.5-300WSM, 30.06AI, and a reformed 300 Ultra Mag.

Seems to me Mr Rogers that the common numbers here a 3 & 0 seem to be in everything somewhere.

I see your shoot went well in July, you gotta keep an eye on Ian Davis he sneaks up on ya, in the scores real quiet like.

I am trying to organise a few lads to come to the July shoot next year hopefully get a few and make a bit of an invasion of it. Dave Goodridge and Shane Clancy are interested but as yet not committed, I will work on a few others. Ian Davis will want to have another crack at light gun I imagine.

cheers
Rinso

I can explain my Batemans Bay shooting very easily.

For the first 3 targets it was at no point the rifles fault.

For the last two targets I put a cement block under my feet, which made the shooting a hell of a lot easier on myself. I was straining to the point that I was shaking.

It is all my fault, as I should have set up my gear the day before. It all started by packing the rear bag so high, I needed a stool that was higher also to get in the right position. By doing this I feet were not in firm contact with the ground, which in turn made myself strain very bad giving me the jolts.

I will give this advice to all, check your positioning and make sure you are comfortable in your shooting position.

The little 6mm would have done one hell of a lot better if I had taken the time to check out the range. I believe Batemans Bay to be the worst I have shot yet. I know there will be worse to come, but I was very disapointed in myself.

The vertical was induced from me I believe, as it disappeared once I handled the rifle correctly.

Is it a coincidence that the 6mm has served me well? You can not say all the condidtions were great, I mean Melbourne was rediculous. I will stick with my assumption, that at 500m even the no caliber has a real advantage.

What gains there is with a larger caliber with less wind drfit and larger holes, the little 6mm gets great handling, easy follow up shots and definite less recoil. For me, that is a huge advantage. After looking at a 280AI and the 6.5-284's being shot, easy handling has to be worth a few points on the target!

Just my thoughts anyway!

Cheers
AI

facts

Ackley Improved wrote,

For the first 3 targets it was at no point the rifles fault.

For the last two targets I put a cement block under my feet, which made the shooting a hell of a lot easier on myself. I was straining to the point that I was shaking.

It is all my fault, as I should have set up my gear the day before. It all started by packing the rear bag so high, I needed a stool that was higher also to get in the right position. By doing this I feet were not in firm contact with the ground, which in turn made myself strain very bad giving me the jolts.

I will give this advice to all, check your positioning and make sure you are comfortable in your shooting position.

The little 6mm would have done one hell of a lot better if I had taken the time to check out the range. I believe Batemans Bay to be the worst I have shot yet. I know there will be worse to come, but I was very disapointed in myself.

The vertical was induced from me I believe, as it disappeared once I handled the rifle correctly.

I did not notice you was any shorter than the rest of us. Neither did I see your bench as higher than the others.

You are right though, proper preparation prevents piss poor performance.

Now about that contcrete block attached to ya feet .. wanna go fishing ???

cheers
Rinso

Well

If thats the case, we may need a few more guys shooting 6mm's, as they are out numbered greatly. Both PVM and myself are enjoying the Dasher.

I am not bias towards any caliber, as I know that at 500m many calibers are in the running. At 1000yds, well yes, I'd give the 6's away and step into the 6.5's or if I can handle the recoil, a 7mm.

AJR......Why have LG and HG classes if thats the case... I am not hiding behind any tag, but really I am competing against the light guns, hence the SOTY is in 2 classes??????????????????????? How about you stop hiding behind the HG class and come shoot the lightgun class as it seems you are doing well in the HG? Maybe step down to a 6mm to have some challenges... It must be so hard being on the top of the board all the time????????????

Also, your averages are mostly from your home range (correct me if I'm wrong), which I believe is not a true indication of your performance. Melbourne and Canberra are so much different, but your location has a lot to do with that.

You have also been shooting the Fly for a long time, and have shot your rifle one hell of a lot, so if your performance was not above average with all the practice that you have I would have given it away. If you had campaigned a 6.5 for the whole time I would imagine that you would still be right up there...

Rinso.....You can ask Col about my bench troubles.............. and also my gun technique..... My score was not bad though, but should have been one hell of a lot better. My stool was higher than the rest there, but I needed to use it due to the butt being so bloody high...... Maybe the tracker stock had something to do with that?

Concrete attached to my feet... you bloody wish... the Dasher will live longer yet... lol

Looking at the SOTY, there appears not to be much between the 280AI, 6.5's and the Dashers. Explain? Just lucky for 3 shoots in a row with the Dashers I guess...

Also, is the Fly shoot on the same time in TSV each year, as I am going to try and make it.

CHeers
AI

Guys, i can not trust my memory past ten seconds these days. The 6.5 did not use the SMK but rather the 140 Berger. The drift difference between the three was the 7 was best, the 30 was 2.2 inches further out and the 6.5 was about another 2.5 inches further out. The wind was steady at about 11 mph for the test. Even so, from the 7 to the 6.5, 5 inches was the difference at IK which is not a real lot on a target the yanks use, but may be the difference of a win or loss on our tiny F Class targets. This value would vary a little depending on each rifles grouping ability on the day. I think a photo of each rifles group showing the actual bullet placement would have been very beneficial.

Tony Z.

AI, the fly shoot in Townsville will be on again in July. Across the board, the 600 IBS shot the next day is favoured over the Fly as it has a target that lends itself to do group shooting on in mirage, wind etc. I think if you ask Ian what he thought of the 600, he would give a very favourable account. The actual day of the 600 was real crappy changeable winds where the mirage was easily a four inch fluctuation at times, yet some reasonable groups and scores were shot. On the Fly day i couldn't read a newspaper let alone wind flags and my score reflected my attitude. I am one of the few that has shot Fly, 600 and 1K with a number of cals from a 22/250, a couple of 25s, a host of 6 mils, 7s of various sizes and of course the small and big 30s. The arguement of big other small is certainly not limited to one match, but rather collective matches of a number of shooters over a number of years. The stats of each range may vary, but generally the 30s have the edge in HG, but it is not as clear cut in LG. The one point that i would like to make is that in Fly, the big 30s in LG are not there in numbers. That could have been different if muzzle brakes were allowed like in the other two shoots, but the rules are the rules and few venture into the heavy 30 pills in big cases in a 17 lb rifle. On our range across the course of a year at the Fly for me the 7 in 284 or 280 AI would be the pick in a LG application. In the HG section, there is no other choice but 30 cal. Granted i have won Fly matches with light cals like a 6 BR and a 25 BR+600, but there is nothing like a 200 SMK at 3100 fps in changeable crap like we just recently had.
AI, you are certainly welcome to come on up to our July matches, 6 mil and all, and JR and myself will be the first to acknowledge a win over a 30 with a pop gun as a job well done by a better shooter.

Tony Z.

on

No offense meant to anyone, but a friend told me once that he didn't join club sports because of the 'bullshit' and I'm reading this and thinking 'if I was going to join in this sport, and I read this, I'd be a little put off'

I'm just saying, 'guys, you all shoot better than I do, with better gear and more time to practice. I'm a little jealous, but I'd like to see a little more community feel to all this'

That said, shit, if I could shoot like you guys, I'd be pretty stoked.

Archfile,

No offense meant to anyone, but a friend told me once that he didn't join club sports because of the 'bullshit' and I'm reading this and thinking 'if I was going to join in this sport, and I read this, I'd be a little put off'

I'm just saying, 'guys, you all shoot better than I do, with better gear and more time to practice. I'm a little jealous, but I'd like to see a little more community feel to all this'

That said, shit, if I could shoot like you guys, I'd be pretty stoked

Mate I can see how you have seen things that way ... it looks like we are all having a crack .. thruth is its all just shit stirring and we all know it.

Tony Z has shot everything he can get his hands on at LR BR in every class .. the only thing missing from the list would be Air rifle and shotgun I think.

aJR has shot LG and HG and various odd things he thought up ..

I have both a HG and LG and am building a 6 x 47L LG as well.

AI is just a cheeky young bloke who needs a hair cut .. but there no bad blood here mate. Lots of shit but all in fun.

As far as being better shots than you, well lets just say you might suprise yourself if you tried this LR stuff. Its actually pretty simple when you get down to it. Hold point of aim, read the flags and shoot .. do it for 5 scoring shots 5 times, targets down patch out.

I am sure that AI is a better shot than me ... he just has not worked it out yet so I keep him geussing as long as I can.

By the way I regularly suprise myself when I beat guys who I know can outshoot me .. maybe your just another one of them.
Come have a go at shoot, you will have a great time and know what I am talking about. I will help you if that matters and I am sure Shane Clancy, AI and the boys will to ..

Then you can join the rest of us when we invade Townsville and smack the locals ...

cheers
Rinso

Rinso has hit the nail on the head... I love the shit stiring, so does Rinso and Kenny I might add. Its a big deal to some, but Rinso knows about our POP-GUN HEAVYGUN HECKLING. Thats all it is....

I dont care for statistics this and that... Let people choose what they want, and let them learn for themselves. I know of one rifle that was pretty much built by other people, and how crap is that!

AJR, after you posted about that IBS lightgun record and the ddddasher, how could I not resist about posting about Terry Brady's 6mmBR new record, again to stir.

I will build a HG then AJR, just I need some funding towards the 10" BAT? You in or out? I most likely could show you a thing or two as well, like how to flick a stubby lid a darn long way with about as much accuracy as a rimfire at 200m. I'll also bring a funnel and a bit of hose so we can get those beers in a bit quicker, as I say, in moderation.....

If I were driven by a huge competive rage, where I would do absolutely everything to win, then I would be most likely not happy, but would be sporting a nice 10" BAT HG chambered in 300Ackley. But I am happy with the challenge of the lightgun and even more the 6mm's. Actually , when I think about it, from my first year shooting Fly, I have seen people who fit this bill... not happy, hands up in the air!


I turn up on the day and decide on what I think is achievable with the conditions. I have not come close yet. Over estimated all bar once... Eyes bigger than the belly. What is good about it though, is it gives myself something to aim for. Where I have been finishing up has been a surprise to say the least.

Archfile.... its not like this at the range at all. We are a nice bunch of blokes who crap on, and generally stir the crap outta each other.. You might even get a few laughs listening! Come along, meet us all, you can even touch my lucious locks... MAYBE!!!! When my other varmint popgun is done, might offer you to come shoot it in Fly? Interested?

Actually Rinso, if I cut my hair off.. what are you going to heckle me about? Ummm.. I'm not Gay, so cross that off your list.

It is looking like a maybe to come up next year to you fellas.. but AJR, the stirring becomes 10 fold in person!!! You got to be light hearted and give it back too. Now, if I were to come, I am not real impressed about the 3 days to get there. Has any of you had a look at freighting your gear up and flying or are the $$$$$$ huge. Also, what about getting picked up and shown around up there if I do... (Is this where I have to be nice to AJR??? Maybe he will leave me at the airport.. me and the crickets at 2am....)

Can we get back to my question way up there at #2, whats your thoughts on vertical. Condtion induced, caliber, reloading and prep skills, bench skills? Its talked about a lot, but reasons?

Tony Z, nice post above... shows your very knowledgeable.

Cheers
AI

Ps. Heckling and stirring going down a notch... Rinso, this does not apply to you..SORRY! HA...........