Why Are No Actions made in OZ!

[a.JR]

Hi All , Just looking at the amount of Barnard Actions sold in AUS got me thinking why someone has not set up to manufacture a completely ordinary 2 lug Remington style action in our country at a price of approx $1500 .. Now i think the sales on the Barnard's is because of it's price and the fact that they are in stock .. BUT, if you run the pressures up there like a lot of shooters do in Benchrest then the conventional 2 lugger is just plain easier to cycle .. The ability to just order an Australian action when you want it would sow up the deal for most guys because there is about a dozen shooters i know that are waiting and waiting for the popular stuff like BAT and Stiller, some RBRP and some RBLP.. You would not have to set up to make anything out of the ordinary ,just a slightly bigger and improved REM700 for me...Because if a guy needs a Unlimited Benchrest action (10x2) or something designed & built like an ALFA Romeo because he just has to be different ,then ok the wait is on.. I'd like to be able to purchase an Ozzie one ,for sure ..JR..Jeff Rogers

[doidge5781]

My gunsmith makes is own actions can't remember the name of them but he has a bench full of them he sells most of them to full bore shooters i'll chase some info up for you

[singleshot]

Agree Jeff. Just simple Remington clones. They are proven. So many parts and trick bits that fit this design. eg, think of the number of triggers made for rem type actions. Barry Davies in Oz makes triggers for them.

I have owned 3 x Hart actions over the years. Still have one. These are based on Rem design but were made in various external sizes for different applications, but the internal dimensions were kept to take a Rem style bolt. I still have one of these actions I built into a long range gun. I sold a smaller one to a bloke up NQ....damm. That is a sweet little action that would put a lot of the modern customs to shame.

I think there could be a couple of blokes with some ideas in the wind............

Cameron

This action was made in 1976 and still works like a charm.



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[jeffk]

Yeah, agree completely. Something along the lines of a Stiller Predator or Surgeon RSR/RLR would (probably) sell like hot cakes as long as it was priced around the imported cost of a US one but available to actually buy in under 12 months!!

There is an action manufacturer over here in WA, but they're making rear locking ones aimed at F-Class, which (Regardless of how good or bad it may be, as I have no idea about them) isn't the simple Rem 700 clone built to tight tolerances and fitting all the accessories that I want!

[a.JR]

Yea guys , Preachin to the converted really .. Proof from the abundance of tiny groups that have come from the Old Rem 700 over the years at 1K gives enough information for the average joe to know the wheel does not need to be reinvented .. It is in fact fine just being round .. The only thing i would like to see is the left load port angled towards the chamber just in case our conditions come real good just once and i got a chance to Run em up...JR..Jeff Rogers

[Ackley Improved]

I think our population really cant warrant a dedicated action builder. By time you factor in machining costs, labour, and then the profit made on each action I cant see it really being a money making venture.

Now, if you already had a business with the machining, and did it as a second income, then yes it could be feasible.

Just our population and number of shooters compared to the US.. and then the amount of shooters that would purcahse one of these actions.... do you think there could be enough sales in Oz just selling actions?

It also seems you can import a action from the US for a close or similar price to what can be sold here if you were making them.

I would love to see a Oz action getting made.... one with lugs up the front, remington drop in, and the ability to ask for one with larger OD if using for a BR rifle etc.

Cheers

[singleshot]

Maybe the government red tape and tough rules has put people off. Like AI says action making could be a side venture in a machine shop.
But all the bullshit you have to go through to be a licenced manufacturer is off putting.

With the modern machining gear, the various configurations are virtually left to your imagination and the willingness of the maker to write the program.

[jeffk]

It also seems you can import a action from the US for a close or similar price to what can be sold here if you were making them.

I think the real fear is just how hard it's starting to become to get one of the actions. Some already can't be bothered with the export paperwork any more, so others are handling it...all it will take is a few more fines, a few more increaes in either cost or complexity, or another dumb shift in US or Aus law and we might not have that option.

[Leeroy]

It realy comes down to two things.. Market, and red tape. No where near enough sales in oz to warrent setting up with all the gear to manufacture actions and there is far too many compeditors in the OS market.
Second is the red tape involved in doing it. Need to have armoures licences, secure workshop, alarm systems, and the endless WLB paperwork. Any company with the all the gear already is going to be chasing the lucrative aerospace/automotive markets and wouldn't be bothered with a few dozen actions a year.. In order to get them down to $1500 and still make good money you ned to make hundreds, if not thousands a year..

Cheers
Leeroy

[cam_mackps2]

How big is the NZ market compared to Australia?
They have ~4.4Million people vs Australia's ~22.5Million people.

If someone make an action that is world class it should matter about their local market.
Exports is where an Australia company should be looking but red tape is a bit of a turn off.
I see the problem with starting up costs and then proving yourself as world class.
Like the problem that the CG Inch seems to be having.

[500Nitro]

People are already set up with the equipment and licenses to manufacture actions as well as having the knowledge to do it,
2 things hold them back.

1. Size of market - and the fact that Aust shooters tend to be tight with the $ so if they make it and the exchange rate goes the wrong way and US actions are cheaper, they would buy those.

2. For the return on investment in time (bearing in mind the equipment is already being used to manufacture firearm parts already), can the equipment be put to better use for a better return on investment ?

The answer is yes.

Why manufacture something that has a lot of competition and creates endless debate when you can manufacture
items that have a virtual monopoly in the Commercial / Gov't market and in general gets repeat sales instead of a one off sale which is what an action sale is.

.

[RDavies]

It would be good if someone could talk Barry Davies into making actions again. The ones I have seen of his were lovely.


But then again, Aussie actions could be like a McGee drag racing engine. If they are better than what the yanks are making, they might make rules against using them???

[singleshot]

I believe Nev Madden designed and made an action to prove he could do it and do it properly. His main business is barrels so the action thing was driven by his passion to create. The reason he is not full time on actions is due to lack of financial reward. I think Nev is the only one in oz who has made a complete rifle. Please correct me if I am wrong. Action, trigger, barrel, stock, trigger gaurd, bases etc. To me that is some achievement as we seem to have this desire to source so many goods from overseas. The so called "flat playing field" the uni pro's convinced the pollies was the best way to go. So now we sell dirt to China and import apples from NZ.

...yep, Sportco/Omark made rifles

Rod D, I hope the Davies action comes back to life. Also your analogy with that motor is right.

[petevm]

Hi Jeff and others on this thread. Well, this is an interesting topic as there have been a number of others with a toe in the water - primarily all looking to the full-bore shooter as a potential buyer. Indeed this was Neville Madden's primary aim as well. We all know the Omark of course and the subsequent 'Neilsen adaptor' to permit use of stainless barrels (too soft to form the locking lugs directly into). The next one is the Dale which used an Omark bolt in a revised reciever wit integral lugs to permit use of a conventional barrel fitting arrangement. Along the way, Bill Angel designed and built the Angel action, still in production in it's third (I think) revision by his mate Bernie Hawes and now known as the Wilbern (from William and Bernie). All the actions mentioned are (like the NZ Barnard) of three locking lug design with all the well known draw-backs re lack of camming and stiff re-cocking etc. Also in the mix was a fellow in Melbourne (whose name escapes me) who turned out a small quantity of actions under the name ATR (Australian Target Rifle ???). Similar in concept to the others with full diameter bolt with lugs recessed into the front but this time a two lug arrangement - however still needing mods to get the camming where we want it. There are still two of these in 'Fly' rifles in our local club.
Moving along - some dozen or more years ago, while still of the belief that action stiffness was of paramount importance, a mate and I were bemoaning the difficulty of finding Rem 40X single shot actions. Although it was relatively easy to get stuff out of the US at the time - cost and the inevitable waiting were a piss-off. So, we set about constructing recievers to accept Rem bolts. This gave us the latitude to do as we wanted regarding ports, outside diameter etc. Lug race-ways were 'wire-cut' (at great expense by an outside supplier), all other work being done on conventional lathe and mill. About ten were made and worked well enough that they are still in service. My heavy 1K rifle uses a special 'high pressure' version of this action to this day. Bottom line was that there was no money in them as they were too labour intensive and there is a limit to what people will pay for a Rem clone - preferring to pay extra for a US 'name' brand for both the prestige and re-sale value. CNC machining is a must to get the unit cost down but involves a large commitment of funds that I do not have.
Some years later the bug bit me again and I produced two prototypes of a new benchrest action. They worked well enough that I revised the design based on the experience gained and ordered in the materials to build a run of twenty. Then simultaneously I got too busy with other stuff and the exchange rate has made the imports so cheap that I cannot compete (I would need to get $2,000 per unit to get past the break-even point and this for a design without an established reputation).
And hence I will say that anyone who wishes to produce actions commercially in this country will need to put up a lot of capital and/or have a desire to satisfy an urge!!
There is more to this story but it will need to wait and you the reader will have to tell me if you want a further instalment.

Pete

[john mc]

Hi Pete please tell us more its great to hear what has been done in this country
john mc