AUST 1000yd SCREAMER Patches!

[a.JR]

Hi All , A little while ago DG came up with an idea to have an Aussie Screamer patch for our 1000yd shoots ,i know i got one .. Along the lines of the one that *Precision Shooting * sponsors in the US.. It is awarded to any shooter at any regestered 1000yd Benchrest match across their country that can shoot a 5 shot Light Gun group of 4.000ins or smaller and a 10 shot Heavy gun group of 5.500ins or better .. Dave is a presently paying for the patchs and distribution all by himself ,i ran the idea past him that i had talked to a sponsor to have naming rights so he did not have to cough up .. Dave was onboard with this so --

Questions =1/ Do you think an Australian Version is worth going for ?

2/What sizes do you think are applicable to our own competitions?

3/ Should this be a different size for say Townsville compared with Canberra?..ie TSV 6.000 for H/G and 7.000 or 8.000 for CBR

4/Should it be for all matchs conducted at the different clubs or just special ones during the year?

5/ Do you have any other ideas?

I think this needs to be starting from start 2011 and not retrospective at Canberra .. Townsville .. Brisbane .. Adelaide and Narromine /Dubbo.. So if the coordinators from each place could have input privately or on this thread it would be good.. Naturally input from regular and new competitors is needed also ..JR..Jeff Rogers.. PS .. Sponsor is ready to go if we can hash out the details , his final call of coarse

[macca]

hi Jeff,
1: Definitely a worthy idea.
2:I think that they may need to be widen an inch.
3:I think they should be the same size for every location.Might make me travel up north if you reckon its an inch easier shooting.
4:I think it should be for all club matches.A top group is a top group.
5: We probably need to look at recognizing other top end achievements in the course of the year.Six target aggs etc.I mean a trophy or something similar(if this isn't already done).
cheers,
macca

[Ian D]

Jeff,

1/ good idea
2/ groups, same sizes as yanks. For comparisom, and we dont want them talking about us !!!
3/ same size groups Australia wide
4/ all recognised or official matches
5/ patches will need to look prestigious, as they will be eagerly sort and hard to come by.

Ian D

[Rinso]

Great idea.

Has anyone looked at the aggs for the various ranges to see if there is a major difference range to range.

The patch has to be achievable (not a give away but impossible) ie how many sub 5.5inch groups have been shot outside Townsville????? 8 inches is a great effort at Canberra for 10 shots most days.

I dont think we need to match the yanks, its about reward and incentive so you have to able to do it.

Should be for all matches, however in the interests of cost if any range starts piling them up then it should be reviewed as that makes the patch less valuable as an achievment. For example if Canberra shooters start knocking it off regular as clockwork then it wont mean much. This will of course happen occassionally when a range flukes great conditions but should be the exception not the rule.

[Tony Z]

I have looked at the aggregates for the three major ranges, where they have been available. SA is still in the early stages but i am sure that as time goes on they will start to show good results.
It is pretty clear that Townsville has or is going to head the six match records/results in both LG and HG this year. I am not going to try and guess why that might be. What i do know is that a while back when we still ran our Iron Man matches, one of the leading HGs from Canberra came up here and did not fair so well. Then more recently one of our regular shooters, John McQuire, went to Canberra and did shoot quite well finishing third in LG and shooting his best ever day agg, one i believe he has not matched at Townsville. I am not saying Townsville is harder than Canberra to shoot on, nor the reverse. What i am saying is that they are different.

I cannot see how a screamer award could be gauged accordingly for different ranges. It isn't done in Short BR, and some ranges are real pigs to shoot on, and some are gems. I cannot see the sense in doing it and i personally believe that it would lead to further division like what we had with marked and spotted. Just make it like what the yanks have got across the country.
The simple reason that there have been so few screamer groups shot in this country is not that the ranges are crap, but because the guns are. If you adjust it to suit some sort of average group pattern shown across Australia, the standard of guns and the level of development will diminish. I look at it like this, there was a match recently where Joel Pendegraft shot a 4 incher with his HG, while three quarters of the same relay DNFed. Tooley did a similar thing when he was still actively shooting. A short time later Joel shot his then world record group at 3.048" in what others have described as pretty ordinary conditions. Great guns shoot screamers, ranges don't and if we are to listen to the rhetoric about how some ranges in Australia are tougher than others, then it could then be deduced that many US 1K ranges are indoors.

[a.JR]

Hi Guys , I was hoping for more input on this , i know it's early days but if you have or are gunna shoot this match ,please let us know what you think.. Because of my direct involvement with this and the potential sponsor i will not preempt my thoughts on this except to say any incentive for shooters to keep shooting or take it up is a plus and i think an Australian *Screamer Award* is a step in the right direction.. As such i would like to see it happen so lets work out the details..JR..Jeff Rogers..ps the award would be available to either the Original (Blind) or the Marked system

[Rinso]

Tony,
I agree but still believe that the idea is to make it achievable. If noone can get the thing it is not worth the effort.
Finding the ground between too hard and hard is the key.
I was not suggesting that Townsville was easier or harder by the way just an example based on results posted.
As I said 8 inches is very good for HG at Canberra based on results 7 inches would be rare, 5.5 inches maybe too much but then again maybe its not time will tell.

[Leeroy]

G'day Jeff

Mate i think it's a great idea!

1/ Do you think an Australian Version is worth going for ?

Absolutly. We have patches for the fly and other shoots why not for 1K BR..

2/What sizes do you think are applicable to our own competitions?

This is where you may get some dissagreement.. I guess we need to work out just how "special" the patch is going to be. But how about going along the lines of the FLY patches and have one for sub 5", sub 4" , Sub 3" Sub 2" etc? That would allow most shooters to attain at least one patch and still give them strong incentive to strive for a smaller one..

3/ Should this be a different size for say Townsville compared with Canberra?..ie TSV 6.000 for H/G and 7.000 or 8.000 for CBR

See Above

4/Should it be for all matchs conducted at the different clubs or just special ones during the year?

I recon it should be avaliable to anyone shooting in any officiated match anywhere in OZ..

5/ Do you have any other ideas?

See above..



Cheers
Leeroy

[Tony Z]

Dave, i was not looking at the comments in your first post, i was refering to many conversations filtered back over some years where there is a generalization that Townsville is an easier range to shoot on than some others. I dispute that and can see that right now with both the shift of weather pattern as well as range mods, a score over 220 for a Fly match may no longer be attainable. With out doubt in my mind, i reckon 600/1000 yards are currently easier to shoot than 500M. Why? Well that is still a mystery to me.
The point is that 1K anywhere in the world is not easy. What makes it easier is a great gun/bullets/barrel combination. I look at Murray Hicks and his HG, as well as PVMs guns, if they were to come up here they would do well and on the same token JR would do well down south as he has in the past at various LR matches.

Leeroy, i like the idea of the group scale rather than scaling ranges. It would cancel out any squabble about whose range is easiest/hardest. I would fully support the concept if the US IBS, NBRSA, Pennsylvania marks are not accepted.

[macca]

I like Leroys idea of the different sub patches.This is a good incentive for improvement.
I made my comment re Townsville being an inch easier with tongue firmly in cheek.
It is the quality of the gear and the the ability of the shooter that makes the good results.
cheers.

[albow]

Macca

Townsville is actually 3" easier but we are only capable of making it look 1" easier

JR

I would like to see the size the same as the US. I understand the comments around making it achievable but the idea of this is to have something to aspire to get. If you are not working hard to get it then I think it loses the appeal and is not something special.

Just my thoughts and in the time I have been shooting I still wouldn't have one but been close and that is the challenge.

[macca]

Well Albow my groups help keep Canberra aggs so big.
I have gone close to the group needed but only in ideal practice conditions just on dusk.In comp I think I'd need a year of coaching from jeff or Tony or Dave to make it happen.

The problem with a concept like this is that most are happy to let the minority work it out so they can whinge at them later for whatever decision is made.
perhaps we need to do an poll at each shoot this month and run with the majority decision?

Ask if they want patches, what size groups,etc like jeff did but get it on a paper from each club and each shooter who turns up.
cheers,
Macca

[284win]

Could you post an image of what they will look like??

thanks

[albow]

Macca

You are right in that the tuition from the likes of JR and Tony Z is invaluable for new shooters to the LR game. I have been shooting for four years with them here in TSV and still learn things off them when they don't know they are being listened to or watched

JR

I have given this more thought and still can't get past keeping the sizes the same as the US. If it is agreed to go with a different size then this should be the same across all ranges as Tony Z indicated in his post with regards to the SR screamer patches. Same goal regardless of where you are shooting.

I see having varying sizes for differing ranges or a patch for scaling sizes as more of a local range / club approach and something the local clubs could do if they wanted for their own range.

The achievement of these patches should not be a give away. Not everyone will get one nor would you expect that as with any other aspect of life. Keep the below quote in mind when you work out the numbers

You do not get to be great by setting your standards at good, or mediocre. You can only be great if that is what you aspire to be. Okay you may fall short but at least you have a chance. Setting your standards any lower guarantees you won't make it.

[alpal]

G'day all,
I think leeroys idea has merit, maybe a 6" patch and a 4" patch for light gun, for eg. would solve rinso's (and my) dilemma about too easy/impossible, retain incentive with an ultimate goal. Maybe diff. colours or something.
Regards Alpal