Rimfire Target Rifle Shooting Forum?

[chris.tyne]

Bec dont waste your time weighing the ammo as you will still get flyers,use the good stuff to start will and then weighing,sorting ammo is one less thing to do/worry about.


Regards Chris.

[juzz338]

Hi Bec who is showing you how to measure rim thickness at saint mary's? If you are interested in trying field rifle there is 2 blokes who shoot sako range p94s at saint mary's with a few mods to make weight but both have good triggers and would only be to happy to let you try them and see if you like them.

[Curtley78]

G'day Bec,

Good to hear that you finally acquired the Sako.

The firearms registry must have pulled their thumbs from their bums as I have a few mates at work who also received PTA's and a few others that received their license approvals.

RWS is by far the superior ammunition. Don't worry about batching it though it's very consistent-unless of course you are running the mid range stuff made by RWS or Lapua's (shite in a can). Batching R-50 will only lead to paranoia.

The best ammunition that I have used is the R-50. In saying this I have also used Tennex, Tennex Ultimate, Eley Black Box and all of the ammunition available from Lapua.

Regards

Sean

[juzz338]

superior ammunition? you have got to be joking, it is only any good if it works in your rifle. shite in a can? batch test the stuff until you find one that works and it will stand up to almost any ammo and at less than a quarter the cost. the only reason it is in the can is because it did not shoot in lapua test rifle, once again only any good if it works in your rifle. how do you think they make the tin stuff? have lapua got a couple of machines set up just for making crap ammo do they? If r50 is so universally good what major shoots have been won with it lately? how does this figure compare to lapua/eley and which ammo is used more frequantly by gunsmiths for setting up head spacing? hell not only what shoots have been won, that could be luck or just a terrific shooter but how does r50 or r100 rate in the top 10 and what percentage of shooters do you think are using it compared to eley/lapua. i might just be a sad old hillbilly but i do not always use the same ammo at different ranges as i have found some ranges may prefer a different ammo. i am damn sure the best ammo indoors at st mary's may not be the best ammo for cecil park and vice versa but you will get ammo that does shoot well at both. same when you travel interstate. you also have the speed factor, hence why eley write it on the box/federal 900 also came in a couple of speeds and from memory that was not bad ammo either. do not worry to much about the name on the box just find an ammo that works and stick with it. most decent shooters will give you a couple of rounds of what they use so you can try them without having to buy a full box. you also have the option of the test range at cecil park where they do it for you. most people generally think it a good idea to clean between different ammo and fire a couple of foulers so that you are shooting on the lube of the round you are testing and not that of the last lot. does it help? dont know but it probably does not hurt

[chris.tyne]

superior ammunition? you have got to be joking, it is only any good if it works in your rifle. shite in a can? batch test the stuff until you find one that works and it will stand up to almost any ammo and at less than a quarter the cost. the only reason it is in the can is because it did not shoot in lapua test rifle, once again only any good if it works in your rifle. how do you think they make the tin stuff? have lapua got a couple of machines set up just for making crap ammo do they? If r50 is so universally good what major shoots have been won with it lately? how does this figure compare to lapua/eley and which ammo is used more frequantly by gunsmiths for setting up head spacing? hell not only what shoots have been won, that could be luck or just a terrific shooter but how does r50 or r100 rate in the top 10 and what percentage of shooters do you think are using it compared to eley/lapua. i might just be a sad old hillbilly but i do not always use the same ammo at different ranges as i have found some ranges may prefer a different ammo. i am damn sure the best ammo indoors at st mary's may not be the best ammo for cecil park and vice versa but you will get ammo that does shoot well at both. same when you travel interstate. you also have the speed factor, hence why eley write it on the box/federal 900 also came in a couple of speeds and from memory that was not bad ammo either. do not worry to much about the name on the box just find an ammo that works and stick with it. most decent shooters will give you a couple of rounds of what they use so you can try them without having to buy a full box. you also have the option of the test range at cecil park where they do it for you. most people generally think it a good idea to clean between different ammo and fire a couple of foulers so that you are shooting on the lube of the round you are testing and not that of the last lot. does it help? dont know but it probably does not hurt

That there is some good info from someone who has obviously been there and done that.



Regards Chris.

[Curtley78]

Lapua do not turn out shit ammunition they all do.

These lines are 'generally' recognised by the lower price tag and are the end of the run or the bottom of the barrel and are usually put aside from when the machine tolerances have given way. Sure you can batch and weigh lower cost ammunition, if you have the time and a strict budget, in effect you are attempting to remove the source of error and improve consistency.

We had a bloke in our Club dissect a few packets of SK Match and after realising that the projectiles were disfigured and finding inconsistencies in the median weight of each shell (which highlights the differing wall thicknesses) then of course a variation in powder charge, weighing projectiles revealed a variation in weight of 2-3 grns and he hadn't yet measured rim thickness. It's worth noting that SK Match is made by Lapua. Check the head stamp.

But as Chris Tyne once said 'what are you weighing and measuring'?

As for Eley, it is my understanding that the top-shooters are supplied 10, 000 rounds of Eley/Tennex each year via means of sponsorship. It is no wonder they are using it.

As for claiming the headspacing tolerance and that Gunsmiths use one line of ammunition over the other, an instrument machinist in our club described this as 'bull shit' as most use a set gauge to do so not a spent round.

I was using Tennex before I changed over to the German line. That was my choice and others have followed. In our Club the top 5 BR shooters are running R-50.

It's no good weighing shite from a can, as for starters the rounds can be disfigured rubbing up against each other, then of course there is the fact that it was manufactured toward the end of the production run.

If you want to batch and weigh effectively you need to choose a mid range ammunition such as RWS 'Target Rifle'.

Regards

Sean

[Ron Goulding]

Hi Sean (my favorite new red head ) I usually agree with most of what you have to say. But this time have have to disagree with you and I have to agree with juzz338 on this one. Its what WORKS in YOUR RIFLE ! I have used that can Shite with a great deal of sucsess over the years. Like you i shoot for scores out of two hundred with a possible 20 x as being the highest score. In three years in a row i shot 43 200s 47 200s and then 50 200s , something like that. I ran out of that so called shite and eventually had nothing else to prove, as NO member of WSRC has ever come close to shoot 40 200s in a year. I will say they the standard of of the can shite has dropped off in the last couple of years and proberly wont be as good as it once was. But you never know until you try a particular batch, i will continue to try and find, as ive tried R50 R100 Eley match Tenex etc and i still get the odd flyer here and there. Got to fly im late for work, need to save up in case i find a magic case of the can SHITE ! Cheers Ron

[Bagman]

Interesting discussion guys.
Being new to rimfire BR myself I find this kind of debate/discussion very infromative.

Impresisve shooting there Ron. Do you recall which rifle you shot those scores with?

Nice buy on the Sako Range Bec , I too purchased a Sako Range as my first rimfire BR rifle (which I believe Ron owned at some stage). Very happy with it so far. It defiantely shoots better than I can at this stage so until I feel I have progressed a lot furthuer in my shooting abilities it's all about practice for me.

[SnipeWench]

Heya Guys,

Bagman, indeed! This rifle is awesome.

I went out to St Marys last night, and decided to shoot the SSAA BR30 cards @ 50m. I decided to see what Eley Match (black box) would do. I was quite impressed by the grouping, but there were still a couple of flyers about 5mm away from the group. I was thinking to myself, "maybe the Eley Match is it for this rifle?". So the rest of the box went across the BR30 card, and I scored 1800 w/ 9 bulls.

Then I did a BR30 card with the RWS R50, and scored 1825 w/ 9 bulls. Ok, not bad.

Then another BR30 card with the RWS R50, with no interruptions, and total concentration, I ripped off a 1935 w/ 11 bulls.

Not bad, not bad at all! Ok, ok, there's 30 targets, and I only scored 11 bulls. Well, the quirk of this card is that on the line is out! If "on the line is in", I'd have scored 26 out of 30 bulls... Shows the consistency a bit more, so only 4 true flyers.

I'm off to Cecil Park this arvo/evening for some shots against the electronic targets.

Cheers,
- bec

[chris.tyne]

So Sean are you agreeing with your instrument machinist friend,are you-he saying that it cant be done,if done wont work,it's not accurate enough,if the answer is yes to any of these please tell how/why you came to that opinion. If the answer is...........................I dont really know...................that will be ok,I understand.
Sean better make sure we are on the same page,we are talking about barrels that are clamped arn't we.
And no Sean I am not calling you out,It's just that you seem very stuck in your views and ways and I would like to know why,that and the fact that we all would like to give the new shooters the chance to fast track the learning curve but the right info must be provided for that to happen.


Regards Chris.

[chris.tyne]

I went out to St Marys last night, and decided to shoot the SSAA BR30 cards @ 50m. I decided to see what Eley Match (black box) would do. I was quite impressed by the grouping, but there were still a couple of flyers about 5mm away from the group. I was thinking to myself, "maybe the Eley Match is it for this rifle?". So the rest of the box went across the BR30 card, and I scored 1800 w/ 9 bulls.

Then I did a BR30 card with the RWS R50, and scored 1825 w/ 9 bulls. Ok, not bad.

Then another BR30 card with the RWS R50, with no interruptions, and total concentration, I ripped off a 1935 w/ 11 bulls.

Not bad, not bad at all! Ok, ok, there's 30 targets, and I only scored 11 bulls. Well, the quirk of this card is that on the line is out! If "on the line is in", I'd have scored 26 out of 30 bulls... Shows the consistency a bit more, so only 4 true flyers.

I'm off to Cecil Park this arvo/evening for some shots against the electronic targets.

Cheers,
- bec

Rebecca they are some good scores thats for sure,christ those scores would get you first place more often than not up here on our comp days.
You should have been competing at Dairyville next weekend at the IRB..........................or maybe a good idea you dont...........one less person to beat me .


Regards Chris.

[Brett33]

This thread is getting out of hand but I also need to Challenge Sean. I do my own Gunsmith work, I do not use a guage of any kind in the chamber to set headspace. Headspace is very carefully set to be just right for the ammo I am working with at the moment. I have found some brands of ammo need a slightly bigger headspace but this is a brand I do not like and do not use so I am unconcerned. All good rimefire gunsmiths should measure and set headspace to certain specs.
Most of the reading I have done sugests headspace does not affect performance, but I like to machine to the tightest measurements I can and these are all with threaded tennons.

By the way Good shooting Bec, but those Sako's are heavy in a comp you might be slugged a penelty, BR30 has weight classes.

Brett

[juzz338]

sako range should shoot of scratch or close to it from memory. sean not talking about batching ammo from one or two tins am talking about shooting a batch number, have never weighed 22 ammo in my life but have tried headspacing with varying degrees of success. talking about headspacing of live unfired round as mentioned by brett,either way is not important as brett said getting out of hand , just shoot what works in your gun

[Curtley78]

So Sean are you agreeing with your instrument machinist friend,are you-he saying that it cant be done,if done wont work,it's not accurate enough,if the answer is yes to any of these please tell how/why you came to that opinion....

Chris,

An unfired round may measure 43 thou (pending on what line of ammunition you are using, a spent shell may measure 48-50 thou this is because the firing pin will disfigure by means of convexing the rim of the spent round. Not exactly the kind of gauge that one would use with precision grade equipment.

Mate,

I would sooner take the opinion of a certified machinist and known A grade shooter then some bushwacker. This is why you must use a gauge when head spacing as opposed to a spent round.

If you think I don't understand metallurgics or the burning rates of powder perhaps you need re-read some of my former posts.

As for shite in a can, if I were to drop a round (and I have done this quiet a few times or had them roll off the table) I learned not to shoot them, as they would more often then not produce a flier. This is because the projectile would become disfigured and upon examination one will not even notice. This may be tolerable if you are shooting group but when you are shooting score you learn to think twice about firing it off.

As for clamping a rifle, I think this is bullshit as the rifle needs to be able to retract. An A grade shooter will have no problem grading ammunition through a rifle nor will a C grader.

One does not need clamp a rifle. One only need take a few packets of each particular brand or line to the range for testing.

How do you think Bec shot 199's? Do you think that she did this with 'shite in a can'?

Alraedy she has proven that R-50 is a superior line of ammunition in her Sako and may I add a completely different rifle to the Anschutz she had been using at Sutherland.

The lowest grade ammunition I would use is RWS 'target rifle' and I would certainly batch it.

Regards

Sean

[chris.tyne]

Sean can you not pull a projectile from a case.........
...........................................Ahhhhhhhh forget about it,Im out you know to much for me.






Regards Bushwacker