Last 1000yd at Canberra for 2007
Rose coloured glasses
perception
Last edited by a.JR on Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jeff,
With all due respect to your BR skills, I don't believe the stats you are quoting prove anything in relation to the superiority of "spotting vs blind" shooting in 1000yd BR, nor would a match between your good self and anyone else at your home range. Probably a better way is to simply ask people who have done both methods extensively which method they believe gives them better groups and/or scores. Its not hard to see why a good number of Canberra shooters prefer the "spotted" method - firstly many also shoot F-Class, so are accustomed to relying on the feedback, and secondly conditions at Canberra vary considerably from week to week (and from one instant to the next!), and there will be times when if you use the "blind" method, you'll be unwise to "machine-gun" right through a 5 shot shoot, let alone 10 shots.
In F-Class, there are shooters who machine-gun whenever conditions allow, particularly with good markers who can return the target in about 10 seconds. Yes I know this is nothing like the rate of fire of a good BR setup, but I'm talking relative to the normal F-Class rate. It was interesting to note that in the recent ACT Queens, most of the top placegetters in F-Std used machine-gunning, so conditions clearly suited that method, whereas over the previous 2 years that didn't seem to be the case.
Regardless of any of the above, my personal point of view is that spotting should be kept out of BR, in the same way as benches be kept out of F-Class (except on medical grounds). Breakaway "fruit salad" classes will cause problems for any sport which is already struggling for numbers.
Alan
With all due respect to your BR skills, I don't believe the stats you are quoting prove anything in relation to the superiority of "spotting vs blind" shooting in 1000yd BR, nor would a match between your good self and anyone else at your home range. Probably a better way is to simply ask people who have done both methods extensively which method they believe gives them better groups and/or scores. Its not hard to see why a good number of Canberra shooters prefer the "spotted" method - firstly many also shoot F-Class, so are accustomed to relying on the feedback, and secondly conditions at Canberra vary considerably from week to week (and from one instant to the next!), and there will be times when if you use the "blind" method, you'll be unwise to "machine-gun" right through a 5 shot shoot, let alone 10 shots.
In F-Class, there are shooters who machine-gun whenever conditions allow, particularly with good markers who can return the target in about 10 seconds. Yes I know this is nothing like the rate of fire of a good BR setup, but I'm talking relative to the normal F-Class rate. It was interesting to note that in the recent ACT Queens, most of the top placegetters in F-Std used machine-gunning, so conditions clearly suited that method, whereas over the previous 2 years that didn't seem to be the case.
Regardless of any of the above, my personal point of view is that spotting should be kept out of BR, in the same way as benches be kept out of F-Class (except on medical grounds). Breakaway "fruit salad" classes will cause problems for any sport which is already struggling for numbers.
Alan
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Ackley Improved
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Mick
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Agreed. A close second to somebody so consistent is nothing to be too worried about. Pretty much the mark I aim for at 1K. I know I've had a good day if I beat him for anything.Rinso wrote:Blackpete,
I would not be too upset mate its a great effort to even get close to dg .. he is one of the best in the business mate.
As for the discussion on method of shooting, I've personally found blind shooting has reduced my group size and increased score. But then, your mileage may vary. They are 2 very different methods of shooting though.
Shoot whichever way you like, at the end of the day, it makes no difference to me.
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Blackpete
Thanks Rinso & Mick, this has just inspired me to work harder at it next year, i love my long range shooting and can't wait to get back into it.
Hey Jr, whats the chance of sneak'in another 1000yrd in, with this rain about and low wind, conditions are looking good at the moment, i am not above bribery if this will help you decide on another match, we can't let those Canberaites beat us now, can we.
Pete.
Hey Jr, whats the chance of sneak'in another 1000yrd in, with this rain about and low wind, conditions are looking good at the moment, i am not above bribery if this will help you decide on another match, we can't let those Canberaites beat us now, can we.
Pete.
Jeff,
Thanks for the usual friendly welcome
.
I guess it all depends about what you mean by "proof". Usually it implies having a scientifically sound basis. Just gathering stats on 2 different groups of shooters at mostly different locations is not comparing apples with apples. For example, maybe its only the better shooters with better gear at easier ranges who shoot blind. The comments from the other shooters above have more credibility than your stats.
You're right I don't have experience in BR, and hope to remedy that one day, and if it cheers you up (sounds like you need it), I will shoot blind .
Alan
Thanks for the usual friendly welcome
.I guess it all depends about what you mean by "proof". Usually it implies having a scientifically sound basis. Just gathering stats on 2 different groups of shooters at mostly different locations is not comparing apples with apples. For example, maybe its only the better shooters with better gear at easier ranges who shoot blind. The comments from the other shooters above have more credibility than your stats.
You're right I don't have experience in BR, and hope to remedy that one day, and if it cheers you up (sounds like you need it), I will shoot blind
.Alan
Re: Stats
Jeff,
I didn't actually intend to try BR just try my luck against you Jeff. I am flattered that you think a 10Kg F-Class rifle and zero BR experience to be worthy of challenging your heavy gun and years of experience. The reason for trying BR would be to experience the sport - no more no less.
Not sure what you mean about "rediculous statements"? All I have said is that your arguments appear not to be scientifically sound.
Alan
I didn't actually intend to try BR just try my luck against you Jeff. I am flattered that you think a 10Kg F-Class rifle and zero BR experience to be worthy of challenging your heavy gun and years of experience. The reason for trying BR would be to experience the sport - no more no less.
Not sure what you mean about "rediculous statements"? All I have said is that your arguments appear not to be scientifically sound.
Alan
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Mick
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Re: Stats
Why not? My FO rifle and 1k LG seems to do well enough against heavy guns driven by guys with probably a decade or 2 experience on me.AlanF wrote:Jeff,
I didn't actually intend to try BR just try my luck against you Jeff. I am flattered that you think a 10Kg F-Class rifle and zero BR experience to be worthy of challenging your heavy gun and years of experience.
In any case, a link you may like to use to continue comparing penis size: http://ausvarmint.kjd84.com/forum/privmsg.php?mode=post
My dick is just a little small for this thread, that's why i shoot a 30 cal to make up for my shortcummings. Tooley said it right recently, that he will never fully understand the thought process of the belly crawlers and Micheal Jacksons, you know, the ones that wear one glove.
If an FSO or even an FS shooter wanted to get on top of their game and not live in the shadow of say Paroz or Hallam or a host of other WA shooters which i stated some time back that would be the ones to look out for, then a trip to a Fly, 600 or 1K match would be very useful. When others from the west go to every long range match they can get to, and eventually start F shooting as they wish to, most everyone else is going to live in their shadow. You can change rules and do what you wish on other forums, but they will always rise to the top because they are complete shooters and while the others maintain such a level of prejudice, they will never be complete shooters and therefore live in the shadows. Crone, Bartholome and others have all done their time in LR BR and are seen to be benchmarks in F Class. I shoot everything, and have mastered little, but if i wanted to do well in F Class, then i would spend lots of time shooting LR matches to see what i know about the wind and what the rifle is doing.
Tony Z.
If an FSO or even an FS shooter wanted to get on top of their game and not live in the shadow of say Paroz or Hallam or a host of other WA shooters which i stated some time back that would be the ones to look out for, then a trip to a Fly, 600 or 1K match would be very useful. When others from the west go to every long range match they can get to, and eventually start F shooting as they wish to, most everyone else is going to live in their shadow. You can change rules and do what you wish on other forums, but they will always rise to the top because they are complete shooters and while the others maintain such a level of prejudice, they will never be complete shooters and therefore live in the shadows. Crone, Bartholome and others have all done their time in LR BR and are seen to be benchmarks in F Class. I shoot everything, and have mastered little, but if i wanted to do well in F Class, then i would spend lots of time shooting LR matches to see what i know about the wind and what the rifle is doing.
Tony Z.
Last edited by Tony Z on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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woob614271
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Thanks Woob. You're right - there are no winners. I apologise to the forum for provoking the exchange in the first place.
I have just heard that Anzac Range in Sydney is going to be relocated - the new Federal Govt has apparently struck a deal with the NSW Govt, and its not negotiable. Disastrous for many Sydney shooters if it gets relocated hours away from the city, as Bendigo is for Melbourne.
These are times we need to stick together, or all the shooting sports will get picked off like stragglers in a mob of wildebeeste.
Alan
I have just heard that Anzac Range in Sydney is going to be relocated - the new Federal Govt has apparently struck a deal with the NSW Govt, and its not negotiable. Disastrous for many Sydney shooters if it gets relocated hours away from the city, as Bendigo is for Melbourne.
These are times we need to stick together, or all the shooting sports will get picked off like stragglers in a mob of wildebeeste.
Alan
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singleshot
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