Ned, to any new shooter of SR BR i have always advocated that they go with the 6 PPC, but for myself i truly believe that the PPC is not the holy grail. I have stated on a number of other posts elsewhere that for the PPC to be given a nudge, the ergonomics of current BR rifles need a great deal of change if one is to use something like the 30 BR, which by the talk, is one of a few cartridges that may make some inroads into the PPC domination. A statement made recently about the 30 BR having less barrel torque in a 17 or 18 twist barrel, as opposed to the 14 or 15 of the 6 PPC, therefore making it more user friendly, has to have been made by some-one that did not look at the actual figures. The actual figures mean that a 17 or 18 twist 30 has less torque than a 13 or 14 twist 30, both miles away from the light torque of the 14 twist 6 mm. The 30 recoils and torques much more than the PPC ever will. The main obstacle that the 30 BR will have in front of it will not be the agg ability of the cartridge, but rather the rules in the US and WBC that will limit the changes required to get the 30 BR to handle to a respectable level and thus make the rifle able to agg. One thing that any 30 BR contender needs to seriously look at is the need for a barrel channel offset of at least .25" or more to help with barrel torque and therefore bag disruption during a string. The recoil could be greatly tamed with the use of broken back stocks, but thusfar i have yet to see a setup like this here in Aus. With the golf like adherence of International rules by the players in SR BR, i doubt stocks like this will be ever seen here even though our rules do not exclude them.
Now this ergonomic thing really relates more to the 10.5 lb LV class, and the added weight of the HV does reduce the characteristics of the 30 a fair bit, but if you are going to run a 30 for real, you're going to have to have things sorted in both to have a go at the 2 Gun etc.
The other huge factor in this country is the amount of true BR grade 30 cal bullets. Karl Keuhen makes a good'n and so does Garry Little. With the CDCs, Charlie Robinson tries real hard with different weights and ogive combinations, with some being good and others being so so. The yanks have got their Cheeks, Chisolm and BIBs in various weights and ogives and from what i have seen and been told, we a have a little catching up to do.
My own 30 BRs can shoot some real tiny groups, but it is the agg that is not good enough yet to make them a contender. Until such time as the 30 will agg in LV, i can't see it being a contender. Mores the pity as i don't like to be a PPC sheep. Bahhhhhhhh.
Tony Z.
300 YD Targets!
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Ned Kelly
- .270 Winchester
- Posts: 1277
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:39 am
- Favourite Cartridge: 6PPC
- Location: Macedon Ranges Vic
G’Day Tony,
To some BR shooters’, saying that the 6ppc is not the Holy Grail is a big call and to knock it off its throne will take a mighty effort. That is not to say it cannot be done, look at the 222Rem. Given the enormous interest in the 30BR (if I recall evolved from score shooting) you are right in saying that it may make inroads into the domination of the 6ppc and I believe when the development work matures it probably will.
Once the dynamics of the 30BR rifle system are understood and controlled to the point that you can use one as a LV rifle in the 2 Gun and start winning/placing well that you will see a decided swing in favour of the 30BR. You only have to look at the shift away from Stolles, Halls etc to BAT’s for an example.
Also, with 30 cal bullets if the demand/volume is there, then bullet makers will fill that need, as to how fast they can tool up to do so and whether the cost is too prohibitive for them remains to be seen. And as you say, if the Americans can sort out their rules to suit both the IBS, NBRSA and WBC requirements (and I beleive they will) then the road is wide open for the evolution of the 30BR. Or should that be the revolution?
Coming from an engineering background, I see fair amount change, often, for little gain. So excuse me if I seem cautious, cynical even, but I do try to keep up with what’s happening at BR central and 6BR.com as well as Precision Shooting magazine to see if trends are forming or whether the pattern is a passing fad.
I'm also mindful having seen a mini BR arms race in S-East Australia over recent years to see who can buy aggregates with new equipment only to see it discarded within 12 month’s, some shooters can do this if their pockets are deep enough and may win the race, but it often comes down to individual ability. I cannot blame them, for some it has worked extremely well and they are at the top of the heap. Ultimately, they have the best gear, shoot often, win events or place highly. They've worked hard for it and deserve it. And if you have that level of shooting ability, you do need to have the equipment that allows you to be the very best you can possibly can be.
Since I have had only one BR competition gun over the years with a BAT DS on the way, I fully believe in the old saying, beware the man with one gun! Hopefully, the BAT will give me as a lefty a smoother flow of movements on the bench than my old faithful RBRP Hall. Either way, I don’t plan on letting anyone pass me without a damned good fight on the way to the finish line!
Cheerio Ned
To some BR shooters’, saying that the 6ppc is not the Holy Grail is a big call and to knock it off its throne will take a mighty effort. That is not to say it cannot be done, look at the 222Rem. Given the enormous interest in the 30BR (if I recall evolved from score shooting) you are right in saying that it may make inroads into the domination of the 6ppc and I believe when the development work matures it probably will.
Once the dynamics of the 30BR rifle system are understood and controlled to the point that you can use one as a LV rifle in the 2 Gun and start winning/placing well that you will see a decided swing in favour of the 30BR. You only have to look at the shift away from Stolles, Halls etc to BAT’s for an example.
Also, with 30 cal bullets if the demand/volume is there, then bullet makers will fill that need, as to how fast they can tool up to do so and whether the cost is too prohibitive for them remains to be seen. And as you say, if the Americans can sort out their rules to suit both the IBS, NBRSA and WBC requirements (and I beleive they will) then the road is wide open for the evolution of the 30BR. Or should that be the revolution?
Coming from an engineering background, I see fair amount change, often, for little gain. So excuse me if I seem cautious, cynical even, but I do try to keep up with what’s happening at BR central and 6BR.com as well as Precision Shooting magazine to see if trends are forming or whether the pattern is a passing fad.
I'm also mindful having seen a mini BR arms race in S-East Australia over recent years to see who can buy aggregates with new equipment only to see it discarded within 12 month’s, some shooters can do this if their pockets are deep enough and may win the race, but it often comes down to individual ability. I cannot blame them, for some it has worked extremely well and they are at the top of the heap. Ultimately, they have the best gear, shoot often, win events or place highly. They've worked hard for it and deserve it. And if you have that level of shooting ability, you do need to have the equipment that allows you to be the very best you can possibly can be.
Since I have had only one BR competition gun over the years with a BAT DS on the way, I fully believe in the old saying, beware the man with one gun! Hopefully, the BAT will give me as a lefty a smoother flow of movements on the bench than my old faithful RBRP Hall. Either way, I don’t plan on letting anyone pass me without a damned good fight on the way to the finish line!
Cheerio Ned