Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

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dg
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Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by dg »

Possible Shooter Induced Chrony Errors

It is well known that when setting up a chronograph, ideally to minimise errors, the axis of the bore should be parallel to the horizontal ( canted up and down) and rotational slew or swivel axis of the chronograph sensors.

However, just how accurate should the alignment of the chrony and bore axis be ?

Not that anyone would ever set up a chronograph with 30 or 45 degree misalignments, but how many would be well satisfied if a rough eye check shows that the chronograph is out of alignment, say 5- 10 degrees.

Well the answer might be somewhat of a surprise!

Note – that if a Chrony chronograph is misaligned, the inherent errors can only increase/decrease the apparent velocity readings as the relative distance over which the projectile passes is shortened/lengthened, sensor spacing cannot be changed (which would decrease/increase shown velocities) unless of course the actual sensors moved, which is impossible with a Chrony (without shooting it :) :) ) but does apply to other chronograph designs with moveable sensors.

Using a Chrony as an example, it is basically and electronic clock with two fixed sensors spaced 12 inches ( 1 foot) apart.

The motion of a projectile initialises the closest sensor, starting the inbuilt timer, then upon passing over the furthest sensor, the timer is stopped and the inbuilt electronic system calculates and displays the average velocity of the projectile as it passed over both sensors.

If the axis of both the chrony and projectile path are parallel, then theoretically the velocity displayed should be accurate within the factory specifications.

According to Chrony -“ Accuracy: 99.5% or better. Displayed velocity will not differ from actual velocity by more than 1 part in 200, i.e., ±10 fps on a velocity reading of 2000 fps.”

Which in turn, correlates to potential error approximates of +_ 15fps @ 3000fps or +_ 20fps @ 4000fps.

So let’s assume that the chronograph horizontal axis is tilted up or down 10 degrees.

For this inclination the actual relative distance (to the flight path of the projectile) between the sensors is no longer 12 inches ( 1 foot) but is in fact shortened/lengthened to 11.817693 inches or 12.185 inches

This distance changes the displayed velocity error by +- 1.5 percent.

1.5 percent error equates to around 45fps @ 3000fps. (1.54266 percentage error =46.279842 fps)

If the chronograph axis was aligned parallel to projectile path in a horizontal direction but slewed either way by 10 degrees, exactly the same induced error would apply ie 1.5 percent or around 45fps @ 3000fps.

What would the theoretical error be if both axis of chrony alignment were out 10 degrees?? (up/down and slew either left or right)

According to the calculator,(and a lot of guesswork and luck) apparently a potential error of approx 3 percent, which equates to around 90 fps at 3000fps. (which by the way, equals the combined error of the individual horizontal and slew errors for a misalignment of 10 degrees).

So it seems, that that extra care in aligning the axis of the bore with both axis of the chronograph is worth the effort, if the minimisation of errors and enhanced and accurate meaningful readings are your priority.

Not forgetting of course, that the total chronograph error, must include consideration and allowance for any inherent electronic tolerance error as well as and in addition to any misalignment errors.

cheers
dave g
Last edited by dg on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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mick_762
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by mick_762 »

Good write up with some thought provoking info with alighning a Chrony.

After shooting a bloody big hole in one, I know I took greater care in its alignment, until a mate did the same thing for me. :shock: :lol:

Then I bought a magnetospeed. 8)
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by dg »

mick

just to test out what happens when a chrony is deliberately misaligned, today as best I could I set up the bore and the chrony horizontal with a spirit level.

I then fired 6 shots which gave readings of 2846 (clean barrel -always runs slow) 2879 2876 2873 2878 2882.

then without precise measuring I inclined the chrony from the horizontal (not sure of the angle as I did not have a protractor but was obviously slightly out of alignment).

the next 3 shots went 2899 2908 2903 - i was expecting the velocities to decrease not increase but regardless, changing the inclination did induce velocity changes.

not being an electronics wiz I am not sure as to how the sensors detect movement or their angle or range of pick up.

it would be interesting to see if other chrony's give similar or different increase or decrease in velocities when deliberately misaligned.

but obviously ensuring the bore and projectile path are always as near as possible parallel when setting up the chronograph will ensure consistent and as reliable as possible velocity readings.

cheers
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by Waldo »

Gotta admit I am pretty careful when setting up my chrony but only to make sure I don't shoot the bloody thing :shock:

I make sure I only ever test velocity and never try and shoot groups (or even targets for that matter) :roll:
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by justjeff »

Hi Dave,

Interesting thoughts. I think the reason you saw an increase in velocity, when you may have expected a decrease is because the 'sight' window of the sensors is sufficient to read the flight vertically above the sensor anyway, but by canting it forward, you have made the two vertical 'windows', closer together. I would expect that within the tolerance of the sensors to 'see' the bullet, any misalignment would increase the stated velocity, not decrease it, because the horizontal distance between the two windows will only ever get shorter.
Anyway, that's my excuse, and I don't own or use a chrony, I use a paper target for that.

Jeff
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by GJS »

My thoughts tell me the distance between the two sensors will only increase with angle giving slower readings.
The shortest path is the parallel one.
Am I missing something?
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by trevort »

instead of changing the angle of bullet flight in you diagram, change the angle of the sensors. It will bring the distance between the two points the bullet crosses closer together
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by GJS »

It is possible to "bend" the Crony on it's hinge and aim the sensors toward each other, but you will have to show me how to change the sensor angle otherwise?
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by trevort »

It's mounted on a camera tripod. Exceedingly easy to change the angle of the sensors. Makes a magnetospeed seem even better


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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by Camel »

trevort wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:18 am instead of changing the angle of bullet flight in you diagram, change the angle of the sensors. It will bring the distance between the two points the bullet crosses closer together
Nope, it will still increase the distance between them, unless of course you tilt either on or both of the screens inwards towards each other. Simple test, get a small box, doesn't matter what size as long as each end is vertical and parallel to each other, then get a rule and place it at 90 degrees to one end but touching the inside of the other end, then just tilt the whole box either up or down, the distance will always get longer. :D
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by trevort »

Excuse the crappy drawing

Image


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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by dg »

Gees, I did not have any intention of stirring up a hornets’ nest with this rough test.

The main point I wish to re-emphasise is that sensor chronographs, regardless of brand, need to be set up as near as possible to be parallel to the flight axis of the projectile.

Similar to Jeff,I don’t have a lot of confidence in the registered velocities given by conventional spaced sensor chronographs.

Over the years this includes owning and using models from Oehler, Tepeco, Chrony, CED etc.

Given the inherent possible electronic velocity variations plus errors from poor alignment and sensor distance settings, it makes you wonder just how close the registered velocities are to the actual velocities. (every percent of error is 10fps per 1000fps of velocity, which is significant and does add up)

I have no personal experience with Labradars (although the club is now in the process of purchasing one for use by members,) having only read the literature and talked to 2 owners.

Apparently, despite a few teething and power problems, they seem satisfied with the doplar radar systems.

According to factory specs they have an electronic error tolerance of 0.1 percent which works out at +-3fps @ 3000 fps.

I also have no idea on the sensitivity trigger of sensors, either angle or range and that is why I allowed for the spaces of flight sensitivity (length) being either increased or decreased.

I originally assumed that the sensors acted normal (90 degrees) to the axis of the chronograph, but I now have my doubts and in reality have no idea if they do or don’t..

On the assumption that the sensors acted at 90 degrees ,I thought the velocities might decrease because, if the chronograph is horizontal and parallel to the projectile path and is then canted up or down.

For the hypotenuse in the triangle created (as mentioned and drawn by others), the distance travelled by the projectile would increase, thus taking a longer flight time between the sensors and thus registering lower velocity.

Perhaps if I had canted the chronograph at a much greater angle, the velocities may or not have been indicated and if they were I am unable to say what they would have been.

Also the given the slight change in velocities from approx 2880fps to approx 2900fps who knows if the changes may have been due to the inclination, but also light and accumulated errors might have to be taken into account ????

Each to their own, but I find chronographs to be useful to give an approximate value of attained velocities, but in view of the many inconsistencies and possible errors I would never argue that such and such a load always gives certain exact velocities.

thanks for the interest and input from all.

happy load development and improved accuracy to all. :D :D

cheers
dave
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by Rabbitz »

Ok, this is a head-scratcher.

I had to draw it to scale and see for myself.
Chrony Distance.jpg
Chrony Distance.jpg (21.45 KiB) Viewed 1302 times
It appears that the tilt of the chrony in the vertical plane shortens the distance between the sensors with reference to the bullet path. (Assuming Euclidean Geometry to ignore the ever so slight curve of the bullet path).

Should I bother with the horizontal plane?
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by Rabbitz »

Well there is nothing on the idiot box, so here is the horizontal plane.
Chrony Distance 02.jpg
Chrony Distance 02.jpg (22.72 KiB) Viewed 1302 times
Again shorter.

FWIW
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Re: Importance of Aligning a Chronograph

Post by MISSED »

Interesting thanks for posing the question DG.

Makes the purchase of a Magnetospeed just that bit easier.On the mind not the wallet.
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