WHY are we so far behind the US?

[a.JR]

In talking to Matt Kline at Williamsport in the US just recently it is obvious to me that we are large step behind the yanks in terms of performance at 1000yd Benchrest .. He sent me some lists of the Heavy Gun data for year 2011..In the best 200 groups shot (10 shot)so far (2 matchs to go) the 200 th spot is taken up by a 7.027 ins group.. Read that its 200 shooters have recorded better that 7.0 ins at 1K . It starts at 3.383ins all the way to the best 100 groups at 5.952 ins.. Matt said it was going to be a super year at his range with at least 6 competitors capable of taking the 6 match average under the 5.000 inch zone for the 1st time .. Frank Weber shooting a 6mm dasher is sitting at a 5 match average of 4.625 ins right now .. The question has to be asked ,why are we so far behind as the best recorded in Aust would be flat out getting in the top 10 .. If you think it's only home range advantage ,another guy i have talked to just this week that is in the top 6 at PA just went to another range for the IBS Nationals and he won that as well .. I will admit that these guys have been at it since 1967 but surely by now we would be a lot closer than we are .. Sam Stoser(?) can wop em tennis so is it gear or attitude or what ???..JR..Jeff Rogers

[stinkitup]

Sam Stoser gave em a whooping but it took 30 odd years.

Do you think a lot of it is just down to numbers and how often etc I don't know the details but do these guys have access to 1000yd br ranges for practice, setup etc more than we do? Pretty much nearest 1000yd br range is 4 hours away for me so maybe its access to these things. Don't know Jeff but it seems maybe that will change in the future as it seems more and more are shooting it too.

Ryan

[chris.tyne]

Jeff how much of it do you think is a pure numbers game,there are far more blokes with the equipment shooting that distance.


Edit..............what stinkitup said

Regards Chris.

[Deano 29]

Jeff

I wonder if weather plays as big a role in the US as it does in Australia. I know down here through winter we get terrible winds then in summer we get terrible mirage. Unless we start shooting at 6 in the morning that is. Also here the Canberra guys shoot 1k once every 2 months so another major factor is range time. So when you consider volatile weather and minimal range time I think the odds are stacked against us having tiny groups in large numbers, down here anyways. I think there is plenty of talent and good gear we just need mother nature to be kinder more often

[ozeant]

Maybe its a conspiracy...... maybe the yanks keep all the good projectiles over there and ship the left overs to Australia....

[a.JR]

Hi Ozeant , I have for 8 years now used the same bullet ,the 187 BIB and i know that what some manufacturers pass off as *you beaut * pale in insignificance compared .. It not that you can't get factory match bullets to batch into usable lots but one thing i can guarantee you is it's a lot f...in harder than the bullet i use ,that is unless your just plain lucky i guess .. the reason i know that some of the others don't stack up very well is because my fellow shooters up my way bring their different lots of bullets to me to see how to find the good from the bad and i have seen some dreadful stuff over the last 15 years.. Also if your only paying 39 cents a bullet over there and your having to sell off at least quarter of them at 30 cents then it's a hell of a lot cheaper than here in OZ at 72 cents with the fact that your lucky to get sometimes maybe half that amount.. Believe in facts not conspiracy's ..JR..Jeff Rogers

Maybe its a conspiracy...... maybe the yanks keep all the good projectiles over there and ship the left overs to Australia....

[Ackley Improved]

I dont think 1000br has enough following here, which results less time spent at the range shooting it.

Many only shoot 1000BR after the Fly in Canberra for instance. Long drives and not many targets shot result in people not taking the trip.

I think if 1000BR got the following and people turing up like the Fly shoots we would see a big change is groups and scores, and you only have to look at the Fly results over the last couple of years to see that.

[JasonF]

He sent me some lists of the Heavy Gun data for year 2011..In the best 200 groups shot (10 shot)so far (2 matchs to go) the 200 th spot is taken up by a 7.027 ins group.. Read that its 200 shooters have recorded better that 7.0 ins at 1K . It starts at 3.383ins all the way to the best 100 groups at 5.952 ins.. Matt said it was going to be a super year at his range with at least 6 competitors capable of taking the 6 match average under the 5.000 inch zone for the 1st time .. Frank Weber shooting a 6mm dasher is sitting at a 5 match average of 4.625 ins right now ..JR..Jeff Rogers

How many shooters make up the top 200 Jeff? To be averaging 4.625 Frank Webber's name must appear many times in that 200 list.

If my experience with the US competitors in other sports (retriever field trialling) is anything to go by, the very best shooters will be operating on a more or less professional basis and putting in massive time practicing and fine tuning. As already pointed out, their gear and components are cheaper than ours so lots of practice is also more affordable. In this era of sharing info, and availability of quality machine work etc, it must come down to the shooters experience and the conditions, rather than the gear.

[Deano 29]

Jason,

If you count the number of windmills between Goulburn and Canberra ( probably over 100 by now ) I think that should be an indication of the weather to be expected in this area anyways lol

[JasonF]

Jason,

If you count the number of windmills between Goulburn and Canberra ( probably over 100 by now ) I think that should be an indication of the weather to be expected in this area anyways lol

Very true Deano, particularly at this end of the year!

[a.JR]

[quote="JasonF"]

How many shooters make up the top 200 Jeff? To be averaging 4.625 Frank Webber's name must appear many times in that 200 list.

The answer to that is Frank Weber's name appears 5 times out of 200 for a 5 match average of 4.625.. He has been at the head of the 6mm dasher bunch for some years now .. I didn't do the whole list but out of the top 20 there are 13 different names for group and 11 different cartridges and 7 different gunsmiths..


the very best shooters will be operating on a more or less professional basis and putting in massive time practicing and fine tuning.

I have to ask why we don't have a core of equally dedicated shooters over here .. I know from a personal prospective i value the results i have got over the years a lot important in 1K than either the 600 yard bench or the FLY shoot ..JR..Jeff Rogers

[JasonF]

In my experience the dedication is backed up by family money. Through the retriever training world, I have met several people in the US who have literally never worked a day in their life, yet are able to drop $100k + a year into professional trainers and handlers for their competition dogs. I imagine that there are similar people in the LR benchrest game. We don't have that level of wealth here so most people do what they can, when they can.

[ozeant]

Hi Jeff,

Who makes the 187 BIB's and where do you get them from ?

Cheers

Anthony

[Deano 29]

Nor the amount of 1000y ranges and clubs that shoot 1k every week. If you have a look at the weather trends in Missoula you quickly see why the groups are so tiny, mind you the skill and prep has to be there aswell. But all the skill and prep combined with shit winds prevents that alot in oz I believe. I am building a 1k rifle now and the investment is huge, as I don't have the equipment nor the skill to do it myself. I am not investing money to be at the tail end, but it will take years to aquire the skill required to be at the pointy end like alot of you guys are

[a.JR]

They are made by Randy Robinet in the Iowa area,US.. He only makes the 187s at Xmas each year, Order in advance or miss out .. Company is *Ballistic Idiot Bullet *Coy.. He charges big time for a hand made Long Range benchrest bullet, .42 cents each over there was his last asking price .. I have a 5.748 in agg for 6 match(10 shot) in 2011 so far with a batch i got here in my hands for 40 cents AUS landed total ea.. I don't believe there is a god so i guess it was luck and won't happen again .. if you find a way to get them in easy like ,i will pay you for the info on how you did it..JR..Jeff Rogers

Hi Jeff,

Who makes the 187 BIB's and where do you get them from ?

Cheers

Anthony