Vertical Problem, help needed

justjeff · Post by **justjeff** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:43 pm

Guys,

Those of you who shoot fly, I shot my third ever fly match today, and seem to have a vertical problem. Attached is a pic worth a thousand words, as they say.

Jeff

chappo555 · Post by **chappo555** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:53 pm

Your third shoot and it looks like a 58.2 maybe 57.2. Yep you've got serious problems!!! If that's a 500m fly and u can do it four more times in one match then everyone else will be having problems mate!
Seriously though that's a not a bad fly target. Nicely done.

Tony Z · Post by **Tony Z** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:27 pm

Jeff i spoke to JR about this and his reply was that there was a constant shift in wind direction that caused a lot of his vertical and group shift. He shot a 255.x i think but said he wasn't able to nail the center of the target at any stage because of the quick changes from green to red and back again. Green on our range is a bitch so it is no surprise that there is vertical in the groups and poor scores all around.
The other point is that today was a very cold day with all the heavy storm activity about, maybe 26 or 27 C if that, so i would suspect that all the loads were off slightly where you would have been down on the 3140 fps required with that bullet to be in the right "node". Had you have used a tube rather than that 5 kg block of alloy, you would have had a 59 or 60 and not that 57.x. That's the price you pay for wanting to be a poodle walking, latte drinking individual

All in in all you would have to be pleased with the results so far considering this is the rifles first outing as a Redneck. You would have to admit that this is so much easier to score and group with than that 270 (shudder) thing. Insert emoticon for vomit.

a.JR · Post by **a.JR** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:45 pm

I.ve been misunderstood again , the red and green changes i was talking about was coming from those Cheer Leader girls practicing next door .. with those pompoms swirling around .you know backwards and forwards side to side and then bomseyday .. Hard time keeping my eyes on the range flags, anyhoo ,my detail was great ,never saw our flags flutter at all ,zero mirage ,generally a great cool calm dayup here in paradise .. I hope one day to get the gun working at the same time as our matchs are on ,then i might get good like those southerners are .. JR..Jeff Rogers

Rinso · Post by **Rinso** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:41 pm

Jeff,

I would say that the low shot was a simple flyer and would discount it but the two high 10's show a definate issue with vertical.
Since you are shooting in a virtual wind tunnel I would say its in your bench technique.
Maybe you could spend sometime watching or shooting short range BR to help you with technique.
Just my 2 cents

Knackers · Post by **Knackers** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:20 pm

chappo555 wrote:Your third shoot and it looks like a 58.2 maybe 57.2. Yep you've got serious problems!!! If that's a 500m fly and u can do it four more times in one match then everyone else will be having problems mate!
Seriously though that's a not a bad fly target. Nicely done.

Ditto what Chappo said

did you really want vertical help or just show your excellent target.

a.JR · Post by **a.JR** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:01 am

Hi Rinso , I think the vertical is probably my fault also ,thanks for the gunhandling tips .. Could not get my act together yesterday ,probably the forced 3 year layoff from FLY didn't help .. No wonder you guys down there concentrate on the FLY match , it's has to be the hardest one of all .. Pic of my vertically challenged target..JR..Jeff Rogers

justjeff · Post by **justjeff** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:30 am

Tony told me at the match that I might need to change religion or something like that. When I shot it, the first 3 went into a little tiny group, so got a bit anxious and dropped the fourth, then back up for the fifth. The 4 together go .640, so I am hoping for an improvement at Easter. Conditions were interesting, zero mirage, and very little wind, and what was there was mostly flatulence from other competitors I think, only problem was it kept switching left to right and back.

Jeff

jimbo · Post by **jimbo** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:04 am

Rinso wrote:Jeff,

I would say that the low shot was a simple flyer and would discount it but the two high 10's show a definate issue with vertical.
Since you are shooting in a virtual wind tunnel I would say its in your bench technique.
Maybe you could spend sometime watching or shooting short range BR to help you with technique.
Just my 2 cents

Agree entirely.
That group does not show a true vertical problem - you just dropped a shot.

Your technique at the bench is important. I don't care what some might say but the way you sit at the bench, the way you work the bolt, the way you position and re-position the rifle on the bags all add up to the final result.

I don't shoot in wind tunnels and I don't practice in windless conditions. Those that do usually struggle when they have to deal with shifting winds on wide open ranges. Maybe that's why we won in South Africa - it was very rough at 200 yards, but nothing we don't see at Canberra, Jarrahdale, Belmont and Little River.

Cheers

Brendan Atkinson

a.JR · Post by **a.JR** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:26 am

Hey Jeff , Maybe you and i should pay up for one of those tuition courses or one of the free ones at the F/class ranges and those point blank guys seem to be showing the way at Long range .. You only have to look at those group and score results at 1000yds down south,gee i could get my 6 match group agg down to 11.6ins in no time at all with that sort of help .. A pity we live so far away from the hub ,hey..JR..Jeff Rogers

justjeff · Post by **justjeff** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:27 pm

I agree JR, but then I guess I musn't be any good at short range, only won the club championship last year. Not sure that the resettling on the bags is pertinent either, as the gun weighs 52lbs, so it just slides a bit. Maybe it was that second glass of red when I was weighing powder?

Jeff

stinkitup · Post by **stinkitup** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:06 pm

I think the Jeff's get the shit stiring award this week

Leeroy · Post by **Leeroy** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:30 pm

a.JR wrote:Hey Jeff , Maybe you and i should pay up for one of those tuition courses or one of the free ones at the F/class ranges and those point blank guys seem to be showing the way at Long range .. You only have to look at those group and score results at 1000yds down south,gee i could get my 6 match group agg down to 11.6ins in no time at all with that sort of help .. A pity we live so far away from the hub ,hey..JR..Jeff Rogers

JR a post like that one is the reason why I and many others have very little respect for you at all, despite your obvious success in HG 1K BR. You are quite happy to cut other people down in order to make your self look good.
Not only is it highly unsportsman like, but it also gives a great insight into your charactor and motivations.

Stuart succeeded in setting a new Australian record, but instead of offering a genuine congratulations, you and your mates sit back and take little swipes at the guy. And yet if it had been you that set a new record you would break both legs running to the computer to tell us all how good you are and expect us to all pat you on the back and bow down before king JR, the greatest shot in the land.

Mate get over your self, you are undoubtedly one of the best 1K br shooters in OZ, but ya know what? No one likes a pompus, self serving, egomaniac, who's only interest is clearly himself.

Leeroy

a.JR · Post by **a.JR** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:39 pm

Hi Leeroy. about what i suspected from you and .. do you ever make any decisions without instruction? While i'm at the truth i quite frankly could give two fucks less what you think....JR

Leeroy wrote:
a.JR wrote:Hey Jeff , Maybe you and i should pay up for one of those tuition courses or one of the free ones at the F/class ranges and those point blank guys seem to be showing the way at Long range .. You only have to look at those group and score results at 1000yds down south,gee i could get my 6 match group agg down to 11.6ins in no time at all with that sort of help .. A pity we live so far away from the hub ,hey..JR..Jeff Rogers
JR a post like that one is the reason why I and many others have very little respect for you at all, despite your obvious success in HG 1K BR.

Leeroy

Tony Z · Post by **Tony Z** » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:21 am

Back to the topic. After seeing all five of Jeff's targets shot on Saturday after i dropped by on Sunday morning, the vertical was evident in three of the targets. Being a rather cool day i suspect that the load was a little light and needed a half grain, or thereabouts, added to the powder charge. The target pictured is typical of random statistics of a rifles grouping within the mean average and has nothing whatsoever to do with technique or rest setup where the low shot is concerned. If there is any outwardly induced influence, it will be from the rickety portable benches Townsville is forced to use to shoot Fly. Just random luck placed the four shots where they landed together in the total group and has no bearing on the rifles potential at this moment. His mean average stands at around a little under 2 1/2 inches, but for 1K he knows it needs to be halved at this distance.
I think what is noteworthy is that this is genuinely Jeff's third ever Fly where most all of us know how tough it can be to score well on. So to do well on this day, which was a rather indifferent day weather wise, is a very good effort for a relative novice.
I think what Jeff is expressing here is pleasure in that the time, money and effort was worth the badgering from a few of us as to where to head if you want to do well. I am sure he will be the first to admit that the 270 was a great learning curve, or a distraction as i would put it, but the 30 cal is so much more advanced and far easier to get to work at the target end.

AusVarmint